Dragon late Tiger with Zimmerit 6383

Post by **Hillbilly** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:31 am

Beautiful camo job!

Post by **PaulAyrey** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:38 am

Adam, that camo looks great. Well done, this one is turning out to be fantastic!

Post by **Coen** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:58 am

Ditto that! The looks the nuts bud. That camo is difficult to pull off but it looks good. If you're really handy with an airbrush you could try and kill that overspray on the Dunklegelb, but it's not an easy thing to do that. I'd leave it and just use yellow filter later on to bring it back. It wil also tie the rest of the camo together.

Post by **mannloon** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:10 pm

PaulAyrey wrote:Adam, that camo looks great. Well done, this one is turning out to be fantastic!

Coen wrote:Ditto that! The looks the nuts bud. That camo is difficult to pull off but it looks good. If you're really handy with an airbrush you could try and kill that overspray on the Dunklegelb, but it's not an easy thing to do that. I'd leave it and just use yellow filter later on to bring it back. It wil also tie the rest of the camo together.

Thank you very much guys, it's nice to hear. Do you think I should go over the whole vehicle with a dusting of dunkelgelb to tone down the camo or let filters and washes do that? I'm going to follow your weathering guide as close to the letter as possible Coen. I sharpened up the camo a bit last night, so I'm eager to move on to the detail painting and decals.

Post by **Coen** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:44 am

I'd stick with the filter. The dusting type of blending kinda went out of "style" with the refinement of the use of filters now a days.
You can add a very thin layer of Tamiya deck tan to the model at the very end of the build to offer a dusting effect. I've never much cared for that myself. But it's an old school method that's still popular.

Post by **mannloon** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:16 pm

Honestly I've always thought it looked kind of odd. And I was certainly afraid if I did it I'd overdo it and kill the thing. So filters it will be. Still waiting on the solvaset, but I think I'll do some detail painting today.

Post by **mannloon** » Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:04 am

Solvaset came in the mail so I'm set to do decals as soon as the detail painting and clear coat are done. As I mentioned in the big "what goodies..." thread I will be using Future as I always do as a clear coat and then solvaset, hopefully with no issues. Did a bit of detail painting tonight, the only thing I'm unsure on is my wood for the shovel/hammer/axe as they're all the same medium brown. I like to have them vary a bit, but I didn't want to go drastic with this one, I will hopefully be able to weather them to look in different states of old.

Based on something Coen said I tested out a track primer color on my tow cables (tested on a test kit first) and it looks amazing. I have finally found my tow cable paint. Still have to finish the loops on the front, but they're getting there. Will probably still drybrush it with some metal paint, but I tend to overdo dry brushing, maybe I don't clean the brush enough first?

Anyway, there she is. Time to go back to work tomorrow.

Post by **OliveDrab** » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:09 am

Looking great, that's some very nice camo paint work

Post by **mannloon** » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:24 pm

OliveDrab wrote:Looking great, that's some very nice camo paint work

Thanks OD. I kind of love it and kind of don't. I'm hoping the weathering makes it pop. Also your avatar is making me want to build my Dragon Drilling kit.

Post by **Coen** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:20 pm

NICE!!!!!
That tow cable turned out really well. Nicely done.
Love that camo too.

Post by **mannloon** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:28 pm

Coen wrote:NICE!!!!!
That tow cable turned out really well. Nicely done.
Love that camo too.

Thanks Coen, trying to use today to finish detail painting but i seem to have gotten a nasty cold. We shall see

Post by **Hillbilly** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:16 pm

That detail painting looks great so far,very tidy

Post by **mannloon** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:54 am

Hillbilly wrote:That detail painting looks great so far,very tidy

Thanks, Hopefully my day off alone tomorrow will allow me to finish the detail painting. I got a bit of time tonight but was just not in the zone enough to be doing "dangerous" painting. So instead I base coated the tracks in XF-72 JGSDF Brown. After that comes a clear coat, then MIG Dark Wash, then a dry brushing of Model Color Gun Metal.

Post by **mannloon** » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:51 am

Some good and a little bad today

The details on the deck are done. I'm happy with them overall. Still need to do my first round of chipping before the clear coat which has me terrified I'm going to ruin this beautiful paint job, but you have to try things right?

One major pain was painting the track links on the turret. Never again will I glue those on before painting them, I'm calling them done, but there are bits you can see aren't painted if you look really closely.

And as I always do, I kept painting after it was time to stop. So again trying to paint something after it was glued on, in this case the raw steel on the wheels. I'm having a hard time getting to it all, and I wasn't getting an even coat. Ended up having to touch up the camo on the wheels as I kept being too sloppy and getting steel paint on them. I plan to go back and clean up the steel tomorrow or as soon as I can. This picture used a flash as you can't see the metal paint otherwise.

Post by **Coen** » Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:28 am

You get better at it with practice Adam.
Once you do you'll find doing it that way is hundreds of times easier than painting all that stuff off the model.
You'll also increase your abilities as a hand painter. Figures will get easier to paint as will many many other aspects of modelling.
It's a really useful skill to work one bud.

Incidentally, the colour that you used on the wheels is really cool. Looks awesome.

Post by **Hillbilly** » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:18 pm

The detail painting looks great so far

As for the chipping,don't stress about it too much.I myself will do a test run on the underside of the hull untill I get the feel for the chipping effect I want and then tackle the upper hull.

Post by **mannloon** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:51 am

Coen wrote:You get better at it with practice Adam.
Once you do you'll find doing it that way is hundreds of times easier than painting all that stuff off the model.
You'll also increase your abilities as a hand painter. Figures will get easier to paint as will many many other aspects of modelling.
It's a really useful skill to work one bud.

Incidentally, the colour that you used on the wheels is really cool. Looks awesome.

Why thank you sir. So here it is. I FINALLY tried my hand at proper chipping,.. After watching/rewatching your Jagdpanzer IV video on chipping I went at it. Here is what I got. I will say that I was not comfortable chipping the Zim as it's all in tact and wouldn't have metal colored chips, so I left it. I tried to think that this will be Tiger 112 on it's way to Villers Bocage to get knocked out. So she's a little dinged on the side skirts and deck from wear and tear, but isn't terribly beat up. I thought about doing some brown only to add to the dunkelgelb/brown larger chips but only did a few in certain spots. The brown I speak of is Model Color 150 German Camo Black Brown.

So be gentle, but I do want some real feedback on this one. I think I was successful in some spots, and not in others. Both the Tamiya Dunkelgelb and Model Color brown would dry out while I was chipping and it lead to a few slip ups.

Left Side

Right Side

Rear

Top

If I had one critique myself is that obviously the chips are too stark, but that will sort itself out after the first wash. And also the areas where there are chips and the ones where they are not are too different. I may go back and do a bit more, but I figured I could always add more, but taking it off is not so easy.

Last thing I did is wash the tracks with diluted Mig Dark Wash.

So now I have this. One round of chipping, and tracks that just need to be dry brushed. Feeling OK about this. The end is in sight.

Post by **Donkeywalloper** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:51 am

Hi Adam

Your as critical on your work as I am.
Love your thread and your writing is honest and flowing and makes me smile reading it as I feel your nervousness and excitement of the build.
When you said you were not in the Zone for work on model, that I think is a common feeling and is when I have to employ discipline and push it to one side and leave it for a day.
Its difficult but you have to do it.
The chipping is superb. No bullshit.
Its great to see a different versions of chipping.
Some use sponges and some the Hairy Stick and shaky hand.
This is Mikes version and I like it.
Washes and Filters will bring the tone down but its works for me.
Love it all.
Great work mate.
John

Post by **Coen** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:01 am

Ok... This is something that I don't say very often bud... but you could add just a little more chipping.
You're multi-coloured chips are spectacular. Don't touch those.

What would add to it is much smaller chips of the dark brown... very small. Added here and there where the larger chips appear.
Then again along a few of the hard corners where the crew climb on the vehicle.
Now when I say more, I don't mean to go cuckoo with them, just expand on what you've already done so far a little bit.
You're totally right about what the rest of the weathering will do. they'll tone down a lot as you go on.
What you have done so far is superb work.

The tracks are freaking excellent too. Those are well done!!!!

Post by **mannloon** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:25 pm

Thanks to both of you, i really was quite nervous to even try chipping, so this is good to hear. Coen I'm glad you said what essentially I was thinking. I will have a go with more chips of the black brown, I'll just have to get some good references of other models up. I really don't want to overdo it.

Post by **PaulAyrey** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:34 pm

Turning out really well Adam, looks great so far!

Post by **mannloon** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:26 am

PaulAyrey wrote:Turning out really well Adam, looks great so far!

Thanks Paul, I was thinking about your Jagdpanther when I was chipping. Probably going to go look back at those pics before I do round 2 of the chipping.

Post by **OliveDrab** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:43 am

Coen nailed it. You've done a marvelous job with the two-tone chipping

Some added minor chipping here and there in the obvious places of wear and tear should really tie it all together.

Post by **mannloon** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:40 am

So, here is where the build is. Annoyingly I've had essentially just today to work since my last update. My friend came in to town and monopolized my weekend off....fatherless person.

What we're looking at here is a dry fitting of the track changing cable which is mostly painted, and a test fit of the tracks which I dry brushed today. I feel like they aren't metal enough, but I think I'm going to leave them. It's subtle, which isn't really what I do, but it looks like my reference, as far as I can tell anyway. Second round of chipping was done, not sure if it's what I hoped for, but it's enough to move on. I still have the shrouds off as I want to do pigments on the exhaust first, I'm assembling the front spare tracks, and I borrowed a spare MG34 from my 251/21 kit. If someone could give me a close up of exactly how an MG mount looks with the ammo bag (as in where it attaches) I'd be super happy. I'm unsure if I'm doing the MG for sure, but I think I probably will.

A look at the added chips, still not too heavy handed.

Still need to chip these though.

Should have built these when I built the kit...

One last thing I forgot to do was install the fire extinguisher. As in I had forgotten it completely. So tonight I cleaned it up, primed it, and then tried to match it to the camo. The two little pegs that it sits on were too close to the tow cable, so I had to cut them off and then CA this thing on. It stands out a little and isn't sitting quite right, but it's good enough for me.

So the plan. Man I wanted to get so much further today but you just can't rush these things... The plan is to wait until my order of Alclad Aqua Gloss from Scalehobbyist gets here before I gloss coat, as I figure if I'm going to use solvaset I might as well do this right. Then we decal/gloss etc...and start the washes and filters. It's coming down to the wire, 2 months in and just starting weathering, but at least I'm making progress. And honestly I love the look of this thing.

Post by **Donkeywalloper** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:19 pm

Loving this build. You have a really relaxed and enjoyable write up.
Don't worry about time. 2 months......ha, you need to look at my build and how far I am behind.
I,m just building tracks and no paint anywhere.
Yours is looking the dogs danglies mate.
John

Post by **mannloon** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:01 pm

Thanks very much John. I've seen your build, it's a lot more ambitious than mine. I appreciate the compliments though, on the Tiger and the thread.

Post by **OliveDrab** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:46 am

The additional chipping really did the trick, looks awesome

Post by **mannloon** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:50 pm

Got the Aqua gloss in the mail yesterday, did an initial coat. Not used to the smell/fumes from this type of stuff, had to make shift a hood to use it. I think it even set my smoke alarm off? Either way I got a coat of it down. Little advice though, don't get too much on, I just about ruined the drive sprocket (luckily on the inside where no one can see) by getting too much on. It is sort of gooped on in that area, I will be lighter in the future, I just wanted to get the thing done. So one more coat of this stuff I think then decals.

Post by **mannloon** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:55 pm

I did another coat of Aqua Gloss. Having some issues with the top of the turret. This seems to be something I suffer from frequently. My initial thought is not cleaning off the model before I sprayed the clear? It looks like dust was gloss coated in to the paint. I took a few shots to show it, but it's not going to stop me now. I will wait the standard 24 hours for the gloss coat to cure or what have you then we move on to decals and weathering unless god himself reaches down to stop me.

here is a shot showing the area in question. Notice the turret roof feeling awfully dusty and just wrongish.

here you can see that I have had no issues with the deck of the hull. Just the turret. SO I'm curious if it is dust how only that surface was affected. Leaving me to wonder what the deal really is.

Here I highlighted some of the larger pieces of "debris". i managed to use a stiff brush to remove one or two after I took this. Again I think it's dust.

So anyway, maybe the filters or future weathering can help me out with this. I have been taking my sweet time with this build so...yeah

Unrelated, here is a shot of the Techmod decals I bought and the Cartograf made Dragon ones. I plan to use the top (Techmod) version of 112 as I feel it looks a little more period correct, at least for my tastes. Some of these Dragon turret numbers feel a little too Photoshop 21st century perfect. And that just wasn't the case with any typography in the 1940's

Post by **Coen** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:28 pm

That looks more like pebbling than dust to me Adam. The gloss was drying before it was settling on the roof of the turret. Making a bumpy surface. I've never seen the aqua gloss do that before. I know it can happen if you're holding your brush too far away from the subject when spraying or your pressure is too high. Alclads are really picky about air pressure. They're very serious about the instructions on the labels.
If it were me I would take a polishing sponge to the turret top and try to smooth off those pebbles before you moved forward with the weathering.

Post by **mannloon** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:50 pm

Coen wrote:That looks more like pebbling than dust to me Adam. The gloss was drying before it was settling on the roof of the turret. Making a bumpy surface. I've never seen the aqua gloss do that before. I know it can happen if you're holding your brush too far away from the subject when spraying or your pressure is too high. Alclads are really picky about air pressure. They're very serious about the instructions on the labels.
If it were me I would take a polishing sponge to the turret top and try to smooth off those pebbles before you moved forward with the weathering.

Are we talking like a super fine polishing sander? Slightly nervous about going at a painted surface with one of those. I have the white squadron polisher.

*EDIT* Holy crap that worked. I'll try and turn down the pressure and make sure I'm close enough when I redo the roof. I was just worried about it pooling after It happened on the sprockets.

Post by **Coen** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:44 am

Post by **PaulAyrey** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:17 am

So glad you sorted the issue with the gloss as this is turning out rather well Adam.

Post by **mannloon** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:05 pm

PaulAyrey wrote:So glad you sorted the issue with the gloss as this is turning out rather well Adam.

Don't speak too soon Paul, you know going well isn't my style.

So I did decals this morning...They are not doing what I wanted them to do. I used the aftermarket Techmod ones, and the first one I did ripped before I ever put it on, this should have been a sign. Foolishly I tried to salvage it and use those anyway, and now I have had all kinds of issues. THere has been ripping, not seating into the zimmerit, One I tried to move and it look the paint with it, due to the solvaset I imagine.

I need advice for sure, Here's where we're at, and I guess I want to know if I should just clear coat it again and weather the hell out of it and learn from this one or try and remove the decals if that's possible and try again after some paint fixing and reclear coating.

That's where the decal went on crooked and I couldn't move it, because I had put a drop of solvaset on there it did that when I tried to lift it off with a tooth pick...that one I take the blame for.

One side (the better side) of the turret. Decals aren't really seating on the zim and look like stickers. On the bottom middle of the 2 it is curling up and I can't do anything about it now, didn't happen until hours after I did the decals.

The one I hate the most, that bit on the upper part of the two is doing that same curling up. The top of the left one is where it tore right away, it doesn't look too bad there though.

Overall it's like just about almost there, so it's heartbreaking to screw up at such a late stage. Blakankreuz on the side doesn't really sit right either. Seriously though the turret basket numbers look beautiful, solvaset is amazing. It seems I'm having the trouble due to the Zimmerit mostly.

I was thinking I could try and create smudges and shell hits where the decals messed up but that's a dicey thing since Zimmerit reacts differently than steal. Also I'm too far past construction to shape out any hits in those spots. What do you guys think? Should I try and use more solvaset? I've put more than I thought I would already, many times. Can I touch up the errors with paint? Should I try and remove the decals? I just don't know.

Post by **Coen** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:09 pm

When you say solvaset, do you meant the testors stuff or the Walther's Solvaset?
I know that the testors stuff has trouble with uneven surfaces, it's why I stopped using it years ago. In fact I tossed all of my decal solutions a while ago and just use the Walthers now. It seats decals over anything and I haven't had it no work on any brand of decal... Yet.
I trust it more than any of the others now, mostly because I never have to mess around with it.
I put the decal on, position it with a cotton bud or cocktail stick, wick away the excess water, then add a drop of the Walthers to the decal. Wait a minute or two and roll a damp cotton bud across the decal. It seats the thing and there's no bubbles. If it's a thick decal like a Tamiya one I may have to add another drop and reroll a couple of times.

I don't know if that will work with the solution that you have, but it may be worth a try.

Post by **mannloon** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:15 pm

Coen wrote:When you say solvaset, do you meant the testors stuff or the Walther's Solvaset?
I know that the testors stuff has trouble with uneven surfaces, it's why I stopped using it years ago. In fact I tossed all of my decal solutions a while ago and just use the Walthers now. It seats decals over anything and I haven't had it no work on any brand of decal... Yet.
I trust it more than any of the others now, mostly because I never have to mess around with it.
I put the decal on, position it with a cotton bud or cocktail stick, wick away the excess water, then add a drop of the Walthers to the decal. Wait a minute or two and roll a damp cotton bud across the decal. It seats the thing and there's no bubbles. If it's a thick decal like a Tamiya one I may have to add another drop and reroll a couple of times.

I don't know if that will work with the solution that you have, but it may be worth a try.

it's Walthers. I must have done something wrong?I never pushed the thing down after putting the solvaset on, I assumed it would sort of recede. After I put the Walthers on I should push it in to the deepenings?

Post by **Coen** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:21 pm

Let it sit with the Walthers on it and under it for about a minute or so. Then wick away the excess fluid with some tissue or a cotton bud. Then moisten a new cotton bud with water and roll it over the decal. It should push it into the recesses. I've done it dozens and dozens of times so I know it can be done.

Post by **mannloon** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:59 pm

I will try this. Hopefully the decals don't just fall apart. Thank you very much Mike.

Post by **mannloon** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:44 pm

Been messing with the turret numbers, They're going down some. I didn't understand that part of the process. It seems to go against everything I've ever heard about modeling to press on decals, but it works. I assume it would have given better results had I don't that right away. I even had one I needed to push to stay that conformed right away, but that was the one that was crooked so I had to rip it off..../facepaln

Post by **Coen** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:29 am

Darn! I was hoping to save them all.
Well... If you aren't learning something you aren't modelling.

Post by **OliveDrab** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:49 pm

I hope your having some better luck with the decal issue. As Coen stated, in addition to the decal softener, most decals will need some 'persuasion' with a cotton bud or soft cloth wrapped around your finger to nest nicely on rough surfaces. Regardless, this is still one awesome Tiger.

Another alternative is stencils. They can be a little tricky to use, but with some practice the results can be fantastic.

Post by **mannloon** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:01 am

OliveDrab wrote:I hope your having some better luck with the decal issue. As Coen stated, in addition to the decal softener, most decals will need some 'persuasion' with a cotton bud or soft cloth wrapped around your finger to nest nicely on rough surfaces. Regardless, this is still one awesome Tiger.
Another alternative is stencils. They can be a little tricky to use, but with some practice the results can be fantastic.

I did my best to rescue them, but it looks a little rough. I'll post pics soon. I did a pin wash today and plan to finish her up soon. My god those stencils look great. Have you tried dry transfers? Some of the guys at the armor club swear by those too. I like the idea of stencil painting as it's more accurate as well.

Post by **OliveDrab** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:04 pm

Hey mannloon, to answer your question on dry transfers, I've used them just a few times with very good results, but only on a smooth surface. I just don't have the confidence to try them over a zimmerit surface....yet. That doesn't mean decals or dry tranfers won't work, as many fellow modellers have shown us it can be done.
Good luck with the final stages with your Tiger

Post by **Coen** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:58 am

These were dry transfers Adam. I got them from Archer, I don't use them often as they're expensive and have a zero tolerance for stupid like me. But I like the way they lay down over zimmerit. Better than the water slide most of the time.

Post by **mannloon** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:17 pm

Coen wrote:These were dry transfers Adam. I got them from Archer, I don't use them often as they're expensive and have a zero tolerance for stupid like me. But I like the way they lay down over zimmerit. Better than the water slide most of the time.

Ooh, that looks good too. I think i'm just worried because i have like 6+ Zimmerit kits from Dragon and i don't want to have issues going forward. I also don't want to avoid Zim kits because they're pretty cool. As Hamilkar always points out I'll have to try all of this and just see what I like. Thanks guys.

First filter went on last night (MIG tan for tritonal) Thinking of adding a few more homemade filters from old Model Master enamels i have. I really liked the hue of their dunkelgelb and darker brown, so i may try to work some of that in. Also thinking I may just finish her up before showing anything. Depends how the streaking goes.

Until i get a bit better oil paint i'm skipping dot filtering and just using AK streaking grime in a few places to get that effect. So, bit more filters, rust streaks, grime streaks and pigments are pretty much all that's left.

I'm pretty happy with it so far.

Post by **mannloon** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:34 pm

Reveal thread is going up now, as well as a video....super awkward talking to a camera. Don't know how you guys do it.

Post by **Coen** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:36 pm

You get used to it.
It helps if you talk to yourself all the time already