Das Reich Kursk Tigers...

[CAMO]

Hi gentz,

I need your assistance with the following, just got Dragon's Tiger early Wittmann kit and was planning on doing a DR kursk tiger since I havent build one yet and have a set of nice DR kursk decals, is this kit suitable for it? I ask because so far Ive read that DR had veteran kharkov tigers and ''newer'' tigers for kursk...

I cant find what productions were those tigers so I dont know if they match the wittmann's kit.

I aint no rivet counter but would like to do a nice historical piece.

Any help would be great.

Thanks!

[MarkVerploeg]

I am far from an expert on the Tiger but i think a Early prod. is good
Kursk was in '43 and at that point most Tigers where Early production version
maybe that the Mid prod. was being made at that point but that doesn't mean they would have reached the units in the field because the Waffenambt was suppling them for a whole unit at a time
From what i have seen and have been reading about the Tigers could have been different with in a unit but those where often minor things and not the most prominent parts of the tank
the Wittmann kit is not accurate though (the tank is but the name isn't)
well they replicated the Tiger from one of the famous photo's and that tank was S04 wich is a command or BefehlsTiger
but Wittmann wasn't a platoon.or company commander at that point and his own tank was being repaired at the time
atleast that is what i heared
but a Early production Tiger is good for building a DR Tiger at Kursk

[CAMO]

Thanks Mark!
Yeah it seems it all about early Tigers, one of my concerns was the non reinforced mantlet that the kit provides vs the reinforced ones I see on kursk tigers pics, maybe I havent see enough pics.

Thanks for your reply man.

cheers!

[RichardT]

Hi,

yes all the tigers at Kursk were of the early type. The Witmann kit is perfect for Kursk.

What you have to watch is the type of mantlet (there are many) and the type of feifels (there are two - the smaller early and the larger later type).
Also many tigers at Kursk removed the turret smoke launchers but kept the hull s mine launchers.

Also many Tigers at Kursk had only a two tone camouflage scheme - not a tri-tonal scheme seen on the later Tigers

Best to use the net to source some Das Reich photos.

Hope this helps.

Richard

[MarkVerploeg]

Thanks Mark!
Yeah it seems it all about early Tigers, one of my concerns was the non reinforced mantlet that the kit provides vs the reinforced ones I see on kursk tigers pics, maybe I havent see enough pics.

Thanks for your reply man.

cheers!

Maybe a bunch of them had the later reinforced mantlets
that is one of those details that i wouldn't know for sure
i know that the Mid and Late production runs had those mantlets but it can very well be that it is a feature that was put in during the Early production run
but all together there where 10 or even more different mantlets throughout the entire Tiger 1 production and all had some different features to them
some times it is a bit hard to know if a photo was actually made at a certain time and place
and with a certain unit so it could be that the ones you have seen where frim the correct time but a different unit or the other way around
but after building 6 Dragon Tiger 1's i am pretty sure you have about 2 to 4 different mantlets in the kit so you can pick the one you want

[mannloon]

This is a rather well known tiger from Das Reich prior to Kursk. It's typical later early, but I've also seen early Feifels and mantlets on their vehicles. So as with LSSAH lots of configurations can be seen. So check your references.

image.jpg

[digger303]

that one has been deep into the mud recently

[MarkVerploeg]

that one has been deep into the mud recently

Tank crews are like kids
and mud is one cool playground

[CAMO]

Hi,

yes all the tigers at Kursk were of the early type. The Witmann kit is perfect for Kursk.

What you have to watch is the type of mantlet (there are many) and the type of feifels (there are two - the smaller early and the larger later type).
Also many tigers at Kursk removed the turret smoke launchers but kept the hull s mine launchers.

Also many Tigers at Kursk had only a two tone camouflage scheme - not a tri-tonal scheme seen on the later Tigers

Best to use the net to source some Das Reich photos.

Hope this helps.

Richard

thanks for the info, yeah it also got my eye that some camos were dunkelgrau with denkelgelb stripes!

[CAMO]

Thanks Mark!
Yeah it seems it all about early Tigers, one of my concerns was the non reinforced mantlet that the kit provides vs the reinforced ones I see on kursk tigers pics, maybe I havent see enough pics.

Thanks for your reply man.

cheers!

Maybe a bunch of them had the later reinforced mantlets
that is one of those details that i wouldn't know for sure
i know that the Mid and Late production runs had those mantlets but it can very well be that it is a feature that was put in during the Early production run
but all together there where 10 or even more different mantlets throughout the entire Tiger 1 production and all had some different features to them
some times it is a bit hard to know if a photo was actually made at a certain time and place
and with a certain unit so it could be that the ones you have seen where frim the correct time but a different unit or the other way around
but after building 6 Dragon Tiger 1's i am pretty sure you have about 2 to 4 different mantlets in the kit so you can pick the one you want

yeah this kit has like four mantlets, still getting more ref pics so I can choose right, thanks for your feedback

[CAMO]

This is a rather well known tiger from Das Reich prior to Kursk. It's typical later early, but I've also seen early Feifels and mantlets on their vehicles. So as with LSSAH lots of configurations can be seen. So check your references.

image.jpg

I see, this kit has later feifels and early early mantlets?? lol thing is that almost in every DR kursk tiger I see, some have removed the feifels and almost all of them have removed the exhausts heat guards...do you know why? it looks like a DR thing

[MarkVerploeg]

Thanks Mark!
Yeah it seems it all about early Tigers, one of my concerns was the non reinforced mantlet that the kit provides vs the reinforced ones I see on kursk tigers pics, maybe I havent see enough pics.

Thanks for your reply man.

cheers!

Maybe a bunch of them had the later reinforced mantlets
that is one of those details that i wouldn't know for sure
i know that the Mid and Late production runs had those mantlets but it can very well be that it is a feature that was put in during the Early production run
but all together there where 10 or even more different mantlets throughout the entire Tiger 1 production and all had some different features to them
some times it is a bit hard to know if a photo was actually made at a certain time and place
and with a certain unit so it could be that the ones you have seen where frim the correct time but a different unit or the other way around
but after building 6 Dragon Tiger 1's i am pretty sure you have about 2 to 4 different mantlets in the kit so you can pick the one you want

yeah this kit has like four mantlets, still getting more ref pics so I can choose right, thanks for your feedback

You are welcome good luck with the build

[InitialProduction1]

Hey I built one of those. S34 very fun build, looking forward to yours. Hope you get all the info you need, you never can have enough info.

[mannloon]

This is a rather well known tiger from Das Reich prior to Kursk. It's typical later early, but I've also seen early Feifels and mantlets on their vehicles. So as with LSSAH lots of configurations can be seen. So check your references.

image.jpg

I see, this kit has later feifels and early early mantlets?? lol thing is that almost in every DR kursk tiger I see, some have removed the feifels and almost all of them have removed the exhausts heat guards...do you know why? it looks like a DR thing

I think you're more worried about this than you should be. If you want to build "A Das Reich Kursk Tiger" you can take some license and in my opinion be comfortable knowing just about any configuration of early feature was probably there. If you like the look of the removed Feifels and shrouds then do it. Feifels helped a lot in dusty environments as they were "pre-cleaners" of intake air. But a lot of the Kursk battle took place in muddy conditions so perhaps they were fitted and removed depending on conditions? My assumption is it was a per vehicle thing. Perhaps the driver in charge of maintenance just got fed up with them and removed them on his particular vehicle. Could also have been done at the Zug level. I have no idea. But I've seen them off in many photos as well.

By the way, it even thunder stormed for a few days which always gives me the most incredible visions. Can you imagine a chunk of the biggest tank battle in history during a nasty thunderstorm? It boggles the mind.

My advice is find an inspiration photo of a Tiger that fits your criteria. If you head over to tiif.de there is a whole sub-forum of Das Reich vehicles showing every single one photographed. I normally take their tiny res photo and reverse image search it through google to find a higher res one. Or just pick the features you want and go with it. I will admit I'm a rivet counter but only to a point. To me this is about expression and manifestation of images in your mind. Do what moves you, and be as accurate as you feel like being. Of course check with people about things like you are if that matters to you, but only you can decide how much that matters. True experts will admit, there is just some stuff we don't and may never know.

[CAMO]

Hey I built one of those. S34 very fun build, looking forward to yours. Hope you get all the info you need, you never can have enough info.

Thanks man Im getting there thanks to all the help I got here, yeah these kursk tigers ara insane! loving everything I see.

[CAMO]

This is a rather well known tiger from Das Reich prior to Kursk. It's typical later early, but I've also seen early Feifels and mantlets on their vehicles. So as with LSSAH lots of configurations can be seen. So check your references.

image.jpg

I see, this kit has later feifels and early early mantlets?? lol thing is that almost in every DR kursk tiger I see, some have removed the feifels and almost all of them have removed the exhausts heat guards...do you know why? it looks like a DR thing

I think you're more worried about this than you should be. If you want to build "A Das Reich Kursk Tiger" you can take some license and in my opinion be comfortable knowing just about any configuration of early feature was probably there. If you like the look of the removed Feifels and shrouds then do it. Feifels helped a lot in dusty environments as they were "pre-cleaners" of intake air. But a lot of the Kursk battle took place in muddy conditions so perhaps they were fitted and removed depending on conditions? My assumption is it was a per vehicle thing. Perhaps the driver in charge of maintenance just got fed up with them and removed them on his particular vehicle. Could also have been done at the Zug level. I have no idea. But I've seen them off in many photos as well.

By the way, it even thunder stormed for a few days which always gives me the most incredible visions. Can you imagine a chunk of the biggest tank battle in history during a nasty thunderstorm? It boggles the mind.

My advice is find an inspiration photo of a Tiger that fits your criteria. If you head over to tiif.de there is a whole sub-forum of Das Reich vehicles showing every single one photographed. I normally take their tiny res photo and reverse image search it through google to find a higher res one. Or just pick the features you want and go with it. I will admit I'm a rivet counter but only to a point. To me this is about expression and manifestation of images in your mind. Do what moves you, and be as accurate as you feel like being. Of course check with people about things like you are if that matters to you, but only you can decide how much that matters. True experts will admit, there is just some stuff we don't and may never know.

Thats what I wanted to hear I guess lol, I just fell in love with Tiger S02 so at this moment I will be doing my interpretation of it, that means with exhausts heat guards and feifels, what the hell I love that early look.

Thanks for your time and input on this matter, you are a class act man.

cheers!