Tiger 131

[Morgoth62]

I am currently working on a Tiger 131 build. I am using the following...

Tamiya kit number 35216 as the base.
Metal barrel upgrade
Track upgrade
Photo-etch grills and other parts
Metal smoke launchers to correct the Tamiya ones.

Possibly I will use the Verlinden thru the hatch detail kit, but I have not decided yet.

I also may detail up the turret interior.

So..that being said I need some help with the details on 131 and have some questions.

1. I know that it had no lights, but were there any mounting points for the lights? Do I need to remove them from the deck.

2. I know that is had no smoke launches, but do I need to remove the mounts?

Other stuff I have found thru research is that 131 had...

A handle on the front and a step to get on the front deck, I will be scratch building these.

Now, what else needs to be fixed on the Tamiya kit to make it more accurate to 131. I noticed in the kit it says that there were no tracks on the front hull but all the pics I have seen show tracks and a bracket on the front.

I also was wondering about the makings. I know of course about the 131 on the sides of the turret and the bin on the back and the battle crosses on the sides.

What I need to know is what unit markings where on the front glacis plate. I have seen pics with markings on the drivers side of a hour glass type marking and a shield with a sword, but I believe that was put on by the Brits who captured it. Any help here would be great.

Also, what camo pattern was on 131 when captured? Or was it just Dunkelgelb overall?

Look forward to your responses.

thomas;)

[AgentG]

Ok, first off you should Google "Bovington Tiger" and peruse all those wonderful shots of 131 as she sits today.

http://www.tiger-tank.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_131

First and foremost. color. When you look and read the text you have discovered by Googling the beast, you'll realize she was NOT Dunkelgelb.

No Tiger in North Africa was Dunkelgelb.

Tigers of sPzAbt 501 and 504, were RAL 8000, Gelbraun with a disruptive pattern of RAL 7008 Graugrun.

G

[Morgoth62]

Thanks for that info. I will get the correct paint, that's a big help. I also answered questions 1 and 2. On 2 I meant s mine launchers, but I found a good pic of the upper deck and the mounts were there. I also discovered that the insignia by the drivers vision slit was put there by the Brits, so that will not being going on it.

I think I am going to go for a just got knocked out version. Try to do a diorama as it sat at the moment it went silent. That means I will also need to duplicate all damage. Barrel, turret ring, deck beneath barrel, pin on side of turret, loaders hatch, turret bin, wheels. If I have missed any other damage let me know.

I did have a big question about the front hatches. I have been reading about how when it showed up in England it had the wrong hatch on one side. Did the Brits do this? All the pics I can find show 131 with the correct hatches pre capture, but I cannot be positive as the precapture pics are not the best.

Well that is enough droneing on for now. By th way. I found Adam's 131 build and it is amazing. I hope mine can come close.

Thomas;)

[Morgoth62]

I was just looking over two pics, one from before capture and one from after, both show the top smoke launcher on the commanders side is missing. I will add that to the long list of details.

Thomas;)

[AgentG]

There are some options for colors. Starmer has a mix of Tamiya paint for RAL 8000 that I have used.

"for RAL 8000 based on Tamiya paints I did 2 versions:
Muster 10: 4xXF4+2xXF52+1xXF60
or
Muster 21: 4xXF4+2xXF52+1xXF60+1xXF59+1xXF49
Which one you choose depends on your personal choice."

With that I made RAL 7008 by mixing Tamiya OD and Khaki 50/50 lightened with Buff.

Lifecolor has both in their German Armor sets. You must purchase both sets though.

Vallejo has RAL 8000 primer that can be used as the base color. Use Vallejo "Russian Uniform Green as RAL 7008. That makes a great match.

Model Master enamel has both colors available

Details are sketchy, but it is believed the driver's and loader's hatches were replaced by 8th Army personnel. My guess was to spiff her up for display.

G

[Augustus]

First and foremost. color. When you look and read the text you have discovered by Googling the beast, you'll realize she was NOT Dunkelgelb.

No Tiger in North Africa was Dunkelgelb.

Tigers of sPzAbt 501 and 504, were RAL 8000, Gelbraun with a disruptive pattern of RAL 7008 Graugrun.

G

I am by no means an expert, but I have read that German vehicles were base painted grey until later they were covered in dark yellow always described as Dunkelgelb. Obviously, as your post suggests, I'm not alone in this thought.

I quick search, including reading AK-Interactives DAK colour set, now tells me I was wrong.

I was just wondering why i feel I've been misled into thinking it was Dunkelgelb. Or have I misread information.

As I said I'm no expert and the colour of tanks meant nothing to me until I took up modelling a few months ago. But now I need to know

Cheers.

[Morgoth62]

I too was mislead. I was always told that all DAK forces were Dunklegelb. Now I am going to have to repaint all my DAK forces

thomas;)

[Nev]

By my limited history knowledge:

The North African campaign ran between 1940 & 1943 in Europe all fighting vehicles were Grey. Obviously for camo reasons they had to paint over them, so as not to stick out so Gelbraun! In Feb 1943 the German high command dictated that all combat vehicles should now be Dunkelgelb, for all campaigns.

I think it is because the colours are similair that a lot of modellers just went with Dunkelgelb. Thanks to companies like Mig and AK the other German colours are become more readily available and facts easier to find with the web

[digger303]

AK do a dak paint profile guide also available as an ebook pub ( half price ).
This site maybe useful as well. http://www.desertarmor.com/DAK2/DAK_PAINTING_GUIDE.html

[chalkyw]

This sounds like a well researched build, looking forward to seeing it start

[Morgoth62]

I will be going out of town on business for the next two weeks so I will not be able to work on my model. I will continue to research damage and techniques for applying damage to the tank. I am also testing different paints and looking at photoetch details.

Getting excited.

thomas;)

[AgentG]

In the North African Campaign, German tanks as first delivered were in dark gray. That was Panzer Regiment 5, in the spring of 1941.

Orders came down that the first camo would be a base color of RAL 8000 with RAL 7008 as the interrupter color. That was the approved scheme from roughly April 1941 to April or thereabouts 1942.

All that aside in the beginning there were documented shortages of the appropriate colored paint. That's why you see Gelbraun with Dunkelgrau patterns. The rule was paint the vehicle 2/3rds Gelbraun and leave gray where the Graugrun should go. If there is no Graugrun to be had then, the dark gray is left.

Look closely at Rommel's SdKfz 250 "Greif". She's RAL 8000 with patches of dark gray. No RAL 7008 to cover those.

Fast forward to the arrival of Panzer Regiment 8, mid 1941. Their equipment and vehicles were more uniformly painted RAL 8000/7008, most likely in Italy before shipping over.

April 1942 through the end in May 1943 saw the Tropical colors as RAL 8020 base with RAL 7027 as the interrupter.
Ironically, the first colors 8000/7008, to me anyway, seem more suited for the temperate Tunisian area while the 8020/7027 colors were better for Libyan desert.

By the time the 10th Panzer Regiment arrived in Tunisia in late 1942 everything was a mess. Their vehicles were a combination of RAL 8000/7008, RAL 8020/7027, AND you will see some SdKfz 251's in Dunkelgelb!
Add to that the area of operations being very green after the spring rain several of those SPW's were camouflaged with a RAL 7008 pattern over the dark yellow.

The Tigers of sPzAbt 501 were painted RAL 8000 in Italy and reportedly the 7008 was added by the crews in country. The PzKpfw III N's accompanying the Tigers in that battalion were a solid RAL 8000. I have yet to find one in another base color or with a pattern of 7008 on it. I believe they were brand new as delivered.
sPzAbt 504, thing Tiger 131, were delivered the same way RAL 8000 with 7008 added later. If you look close you will see RAL 7027 patches on repairs and replacement parts. You can also spot Dark Gray Feifels and other accessories as well.

This could take a lifetime of research for a dedicated historian and I'm just referring to the German side.

G

[Morgoth62]

So....

Today I pulled some parts from other kits to make my Tamiya 216 a bit more accurate and nice.

I found the correct mantlet in my Rye Field Tiger kit and I am not going to use it on that build so, boom.
I also scavenged the Feifels from it as they are not used along with the photo etch for the top of the Feifels along with the tubing and I will decide later if I will use that.

I found to extra clear periscopes that will work with my Tiger in two difference spare parts bins I have, so another upgrade for free

I found and old panzer antenna upgrade kit that was partially used and found it had the correct base and it is more detailed than the Tamiya one, another freebie.

and I pulled a turret bin from another Dragon kit that was much more accurate than the Tamiya one.

So I am very happy with my finds and this will add to the accuracy of the build.

I will add more later.

thomas;)

[Augustus]

Finding the correct colour doesn't matter that much because even if you could find the exact original colour then you'll have take care of the tanks exposure to sun and weather conditions, the colour of the sun in North Africa, repaintings in the field and much more. So my advice is to find a close colour and apply weathering to it then trust your own feel about what the final colour could be.

[Morgoth62]

Finding the correct colour doesn't matter that much because even if you could find the exact original colour then you'll have take care of the tanks exposure to sun and weather conditions, the colour of the sun in North Africa, repaintings in the field and much more. So my advice is to find a close colour and apply weathering to it then trust your own feel about what the final colour could be.

I had read this on two different sites. Many of the paints changed tint with age and exposure to the sun and weather. I will just use the colors recommended in the beginning of this post and hope for the best

On another note, does anyone have any reference or know if the crew of 131 used the escape hatch when the fled the tank? Was it open? I am assuming it was and for now I am planning on having it open on my model. I pulled a hatch from a dragon kit that did not use it and it has all the detail pieces on it.

thomas;)

[AgentG]

I've yet to see a photo of 131 from an angle that shows the turret side hatch. Even the most widely circulated photo of her capture reveals she had been already searched when it was taken.

One thing about weathering. 131 was brand new. She was built October-November 1942 and transported to Tunisia around February 1943. She was captured April 1943.

Not really enough time to fade the paint. The only real damage to her had been inflicted in the fight that knocked her out.

So what you are left with is a one owner, slightly used, but mildly abused dusty beast sitting alone on a hill top.

G

[Morgoth62]

Paints a pretty forlorn picture, doesn't it. I have decided to have the hatch open as I am detailing the interior of the turret. With no evidence to the contrary I will use artist prerogative and say they used it during egress.

I will not be detailing the forward parts of the tank as I will be gluing the forward hatches closed. I am still debating weather to detail the radiators and engine. You can kind of see into that area but with the photo etch grills covering that area you can't really see anything, so I will make up my mind later. I thought I might lift one of the covers to the radiator fans to reveal a bid, but I have found not photographic evidence showing them open.

I wanted to say thanks for all the really good advice on the color. I will paint it pretty much factory and then weather it with dust and dirt, nothing to grand, just enough to make it look dirty.

thomas;)

[Morgoth62]

So I did a little work to tonight before my trip. Worked on the turret.



Tamiya 216 kit base. Replace mantelet with correct one from Rey Field kit. Replaced copula with Dragon kit part and drilled holes around ring. Glued plastic rod to simulate mounts for sun shield and added the little site on ring slit. Also replaced the vent with nicer one from Dragon kit leftovers.



On the side drilled hole and replaced small arms port.

The mantelet is Frankenstein at its best. From the base pivot in the turret it goes, Tamiya, Dragon, Rey Field, Tamiya then finally Metal barrel by Lion Roar. But once primed and painted it will be fine. I have yet to do any damage to the turret. I plan to do the following, damage to the underside of the barrel and mantlet and turret ring, damage to the pintel on the commander side of the turret, damage to the front of the cupola and finally damage to the loaders hatch.

I have decided to bring the kit with me on my trip and will be working on it and in the evenings. I will post updates as I can.

Thomas;)

[chalkyw]

I'm planning a trip to Bovington Tank Museum in a few weeks so if you want me to take any specific photos of 131 while I'm there then let me know as I'll be happy to post them here for you

[Kevthemodeller]

I've done a couple trips to Bovy in the last few months and have quite a few of 131 both before the recent tiger day it was all clean and after showing weathering. It's quite an eye opener the rear decking is covered in black exhaust. Now whether they use cheaper fuel or it's burning oil I've no idea but it's coated and it would have seen no more that a few hours use.

[Morgoth62]

I would love some pics of 131 that are current. Just do a good walk around. That means starting at 0 or right in front of the tank and then walk clockwise and take a pic every 15 or so degrees as the compass goes. Then try and get pics of the TOP of the tank, something that seems to be sorely lacking. Pictures of the front, sides and rear deck and the top of the turret. Also, do a circle of the turret and copula. Then take pics of all of the battle damage that still remains. The underside of the barrel, mantlet and ring. The pintel on the side, the damage to the copula and road wheels and any other dents and holes you find.

Please take good high res pics. I know this is a lot but it would be helpful to everyone interested in 131.

Thanks in advance.

thomas;)

[InitialProduction1]

Nice start, I've always liked the Frankenstein builds. Look forward to the next update.

[Morgoth62]

Here is my first attempt and final work on the damaged loader hatch. The one one the right is what I will use on the model.

I am trying to decide what to use for the broken seal, but I will add it before I am finished.



Thomas;)

[chalkyw]

Hi Morgoth,

I've just come across this link https://haynes.co.uk/microsites/tigertank/

To quote
A detailed narrative and comprehensive photographic coverage is given of the strip-down of ‘131’ and its Maybach engine, and many rare images depict what lies beneath the Tiger’s skin.

Available on Amazon

[Morgoth62]

A quick update. Been working in my hotel room, sucks not having all my tools but better than nothing I guess. I have partially assembled the tank and did some more mods. Temp mounted the loader hatch and it looks great, I am very happy with it. So without further ado....







I tried to get the angle of the photo as close to the picture I have of the hatch damage. Let me know what you think.

Also, after long debate with myself I have decided not to detail the interior at all. If it was a dragon it to begin with I probably would have but as they say, no use putting pearls on a pig . No offense to those who love Tamiya, they are nice kits, just not the same league as Dragon.

Thomas;)

[OliveDrab]

Great work on this famous beast

[Stokesy44]

Looking good. That last photo is excellent, shows the Tiger's real menace with that great 88 glaring at you.

[InitialProduction1]

Very nice kit bash Thomas, I would not have wanted to be sitting in that loaders spot, ouch.

[Morgoth62]

I am sure that if the loader was there that it rang his bell. But not knowing the fate of 131's crew we can never know for sure. The damage the tank took shows that at least the loader, radio ops and driver were more than likely injured. He commander, in my opinion, did the right thing bailing out and saving his crew. Perhaps in the rush and with injured men it would have been extremely easy to forget to blow the tank.

Thomas;)

[chalkyw]

Great start MG