How do you guys feel about PapzerPanzer/prototypes?

[garywintin]

Well, I just saw some images of the upcoming Trumpy IS-4 and I figured I would have a discussing with such lovely people I have had the honour of meeting ( that means you guys ) about the topic of paper panzers and prototypes.

How do you guys feel about them? They have been negatively regarded by some hardcore rivet-counting hardcore historical modellers but I really think it's a good thing that these things come into being. Me, I love them. They un-shackle this unseen chain of having to stick to actual scheme, the correct shade of one colour, the correct turret number, yada yada yada.

Being a hobby that is supposed to be fun and enjoyable, these kits really gives modellers a far bigger and wider canvas then anything could give (ok that's a bit exaggerated there ). The sky's the limit with those babies.

How about you guys?

P.S. No offence to anybody with this topic, I just want to have a discussion, get to know more about you guys and other friendly stuffs...

[Dunhill2005]

I think it's good to build prototypes. The nice thing about our hobby is to let his imagination run free.Some paint their kits how you like it and some others run some great research.Who does not like is to keep it to themselves.All tanks, ships and aircraft were in the beginning only drawings. Some have made it into reality and others not. By the way, your prototype "Löwe" is great.

[Lee]

Totally agree - I'm completely anti rivet counters! You do what you want to do, not what some one says you should do

[greg74]

Totally agree
I built myself a lot of paper models and prototypes, and I think that anything that adds color to our hobby is good

[wappynutter]

Rivet counters we are not.... If I remember rightly the German Supertank" Maus " was a prototype secret weapon that never came true. Though Dragon released a kit of it.
If you want to find any more info on these type of ideas and prototypes check out ww2incolor.com
Heres a link...... all 38 pages all having a similar discussion with prototype drawings and limited built armour etc...

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthr ... prototypes

All interesting designs and ideas... I like The heavier jagdpanzer E-25. Designed by Porsche. ( bottom of page 1 )
Or how about One of the most interesting prototypes based on the Panzer III's chassis was Minenraumpanzer III - mine clearing/mine destroyer tank.
Cool stuff, don't think we'll find any kits though..

[Schoof]

E-75 please come soon

[garywintin]

E-75 please come soon

Schoof - u seious??

[Schoof]

What. .......oops....... i missed that........

[garywintin]

LOOL ... I thought you were joking

[Radzy]

I was always a little bit sceptic about paper panzers... I didn't mind discussions about all those what-ifs but this reluctance was somehow driven by guys from Wargaming.net who introduced mostly paper tanks to their World of Tanks game.
But also somehow thanks to WoT my approach to the subject has definitely changed to more positive after a time.

I have studied a lot about projects and as long as they're well documented (not like those Pzkpfw IX drawings) I really like them and might consider building them somewhere in the future.
Few months ago I saw build review of Trumpeter's E-75 or Amusing Hobby Loewe... definitely worth trying

[garywintin]

Rivet counters we are not.... If I remember rightly the German Supertank" Maus " was a prototype secret weapon that never came true. Though Dragon released a kit of it.
If you want to find any more info on these type of ideas and prototypes check out ww2incolor.com
Heres a link...... all 38 pages all having a similar discussion with prototype drawings and limited built armour etc...

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthr ... prototypes

All interesting designs and ideas... I like The heavier jagdpanzer E-25. Designed by Porsche. ( bottom of page 1 )
Or how about One of the most interesting prototypes based on the Panzer III's chassis was Minenraumpanzer III - mine clearing/mine destroyer tank.
Cool stuff, don't think we'll find any kits though..

Wappy, just for that -

[Schoof]

Nope. .....hhmmmm... trumpeter ?........ have to look them up....... Until 4 weeks agoi only heard of revell....... still learning

[garywintin]

Nope. .....hhmmmm... trumpeter ?........ have to look them up....... Until 4 weeks agoi only heard of revell....... still learning

I can give you a list of available Paper Panzers and other prototypes if you are interested... just tell me

[garywintin]

I was always a little bit sceptic about paper panzers... I didn't mind discussions about all those what-ifs but this reluctance was somehow driven by guys from Wargaming.net who introduced mostly paper tanks to their World of Tanks game.
But also somehow thanks to WoT my approach to the subject has definitely changed to more positive after a time.

I have studied a lot about projects and as long as they're well documented (not like those Pzkpfw IX drawings) I really like them and might consider building them somewhere in the future.
Few months ago I saw build review of Trumpeter's E-75 or Amusing Hobby Loewe... definitely worth trying

I have to admit, I was only aware of the Lowe after WoT... but was aware of the E-series when they came out around 2010.. that time, there was not WoT so people reacted so negatively to them .. Thank lord things are different now...

I have yet to buy a E-75 but I have heard it's a very simplified kit but a good one. The Lowe is a must have, if you are getting into paper panzer. I made one and I have really enjoyed it.

[Radzy]

I have yet to buy a E-75 but I have heard it's a very simplified kit but a good one. The Lowe is a must have, if you are getting into paper panzer. I made one and I have really enjoyed it.

Yeah I heard the same about this E-75. But there's also nice model of VK1602 Leopard by Amusing Hobby - also saw building review. Guy used lots of PE parts for other kits and it turned into really good looking model.
Have you seen VsKfz 617 Minenraumer from Meng ? Looks simple... but intriguing... and there was at least one of them operational

[garywintin]

I have yet to buy a E-75 but I have heard it's a very simplified kit but a good one. The Lowe is a must have, if you are getting into paper panzer. I made one and I have really enjoyed it.

Yeah I heard the same about this E-75. But there's also nice model of VK1602 Leopard by Amusing Hobby - also saw building review. Guy used lots of PE parts for other kits and it turned into really good looking model.
Have you seen VsKfz 617 Minenraumer from Meng ? Looks simple... but intriguing... and there was at least one of them operational

The Minenraumer is one of Meng's jewel... I would get it if I was not broke ..

[HamilkarBarkas]

Paper panzer are not that bad in my opinion, i made the E25 a couple of years ago which was an interesting project.
I actually intend to build something like that again at some point, maybe the E100 with plenty of custom parts to depict a L version for example which exists only in my head of course!
I like the idea of such an E100 tank next to a road sign in Washington D.C...for some reason

[Schoof]

Nope. .....hhmmmm... trumpeter ?........ have to look them up....... Until 4 weeks agoi only heard of revell....... still learning

I can give you a list of available Paper Panzers and other prototypes if you are interested... just tell me

YES i would like that

[ForbesHutton]

Rivet counters we are not.... If I remember rightly the German Supertank" Maus " was a prototype secret weapon that never came true. Though Dragon released a kit of it.
If you want to find any more info on these type of ideas and prototypes check out ww2incolor.com
Heres a link...... all 38 pages all having a similar discussion with prototype drawings and limited built armour etc...

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthr ... prototypes

All interesting designs and ideas... I like The heavier jagdpanzer E-25. Designed by Porsche. ( bottom of page 1 )
Or how about One of the most interesting prototypes based on the Panzer III's chassis was Minenraumpanzer III - mine clearing/mine destroyer tank.
Cool stuff, don't think we'll find any kits though..

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMKZyMnIvxU

[Coen]

I've only built one "Paper Panzer" and that was my Maus.
Though it's not truly a paper panzer (it actually left the drawing board and construction began).
It's actually the only reason that I built it. It existed.

I'm certainly not a rivet counter, but I like my own work to be as accurate as I can make them and it annoys me went it isn't.
Being annoyed is a fun killer. Fun killers aren't allowed in my man cave haha.

With Paper Panzers I can't be very accurate because they never left the drawing board so there's almost no reference material to work with.
I'm not comfortable with that I guess. So, as a result, I don't build paper panzers.
It's challenging enough to build a subject from a single photo when the vehicle has substance.
It's hard for me to model a wisp of smoke haha.

Sci-fi and what if projects are a bit different for me because I see them as a combination of art and modelling, those are just fun.
If I could find a way to get my head around a paper panzer being in that category I might build more. I just don't seem to like them I guess.

[Dunhill2005]

I've only built one "Paper Panzer" and that was my Maus.
Though it's not truly a paper panzer (it actually left the drawing board and construction began).
It's actually the only reason that I built it. It existed.

I'm certainly not a rivet counter, but I like my own work to be as accurate as I can make them and it annoys me went it isn't.
Being annoyed is a fun killer. Fun killers aren't allowed in my man cave haha.

With Paper Panzers I can't be very accurate because they never left the drawing board so there's almost no reference material to work with.
I'm not comfortable with that I guess. So, as a result, I don't build paper panzers.
It's challenging enough to build a subject from a single photo when the vehicle has substance.
It's hard for me to model a wisp of smoke haha.

Sci-fi and what if projects are a bit different for me because I see them as a combination of art and modelling, those are just fun.
If I could find a way to get my head around a paper panzer being in that category I might build more. I just don't seem to like them I guess.

This is not a criticism of Coen!Should it sound like, then I'm sorry...
You said that you differentiate between studies armor and Sci-fi.Where is the difference between a drawn tank or a drawn spaceship?
Then is not both a kind of art?

[alextheblue]

Great question Gary! I appreciate both arguments but probably agree with Dunhill a bit more. Being a firm believer that philosophy is the mother of all science, everything that we conceive first begins in thought. This in turn leads to design, which leads to prototypes and finally we get production. However, if you're building from a historical point of view, how do you build something that was no more than conceptual as you have no reference point.

Personally, I like the idea of paper panzers as I've always thought "what if" about different things. For me this hobby is more about creating something from a pile of plastic rather than simulating "real" things, but everyone rocks it their own way.

And Coen, do I need to remind you that you're the man that built a pink Sherman!!

[Coen]

That's different... I can't say no to Cate.
She bats those bug blue eyes and says paint it pink... I lower my head and say "yesth Masther" and trudge off the to cave.

[alextheblue]

She's a cutie and no mistake!

And I would have to add that whilst the tank was pink, it was perfectly weathered!

[Coen]

This is not a criticism of Coen!Should it sound like, then I'm sorry...
You said that you differentiate between studies armor and Sci-fi.Where is the difference between a drawn tank or a drawn spaceship?
Then is not both a kind of art?

It's ok Dunhill, I didn't take it as criticism. I took it as a question.
There isn't a big difference.
One is of something that is build-able in real life but just never got produced because of time, money, changes in politics.
The other is just made up and most likely could never be built.
Both come from someone's imagination.

It's a matter of personal taste for me.
I like one more than the other. I'm allowed that I think.

[garywintin]

Many good points here ...

but what's funny ( and some what ironic ) is that when I was building the Dicker Max , I knew that there was a real life vehicle and from that moment on, I started treating it more seriously and just stick to the germany grey without even a drop of camo. I mean, I should have had .. I could have gone with a '' what-if '' but I didn't .. I couldn't .... I don't know why .. :/