The other Tigers - VK4501(P) project in 1/35

[tankbrusher]

Hello and greetings
I would like to kick off a somewhat new build, not one tank in particular but more a topic. When doing WW2 German AFVs one could build this and that and at the end it is the 30050000th Panther on YouTube or just another Tiger in the cabinet.
My goal is to give my collection a little bit more focus, since I’m tired of reading only bits and pieces and never get to a level of the what and why in understanding its engineering…

Initially speaking of another Tiger. There is actually one or two or some more!

One of my favorite topics within this mess of model designations, production batches, prototypes and variants are the vehicles designed by Porsche. The VK4501 or Tiger (P) to be more precise. With its petrol electric drive, it is somewhat outstanding, its development a story of failure and adaption, resulting in the most effective (in numbers) tank destroyers of its time. The vehicle counts of about 100 (+ ballistic test hulls) is small enough to build its story in reasonable detailed manner. Historic research is quite good too, nearly every vehicle can be tracked down to its chassis number.

I had this project already in mind long time ago, but never had the skill to tackle it, since I’m making progress and old kits are getting obsolete anyway it is now time to face the task.

Project status:
Hobby Boss Type 100 "Leopard"
Fully converted to match the real one as close as I can do. (Resin 3D Print).

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Part 1: 3D Print and converting:

Part 2: Soon

Amusing Hobby 35A032 – to be a Type 101 at the training grounds
Italeri 6565 – to be a Type 102 in its R&D phase
Italeri 278 – to be a Rammtiger Paperpanzer
Dragon 6210 – to be the only Type 102 in combat.
Dragon Elefant Premium 6311 – to in Italy in ‘44
Dragon Bergepanzer Tiger (P) 6226 2x – to be in its initial and overhauled appearance
#1 Early Version (Testing at Nibelungenwerk): Rebuild - Done

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#2 Late Version (still the very same vehicle, but overhauled): Soon
Zvezda Ferdinand 3653 – Ferdinand of the s.Pz.Jg.Abt.654 - July '43. - Done

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Kit Review: Sry, not the to be expected video quality

Vlog 1: Underpaint, Base Coat, Spray Masks for bar crosses:

Vlog 2: Camo, Decals & Weathering.

Dragon Ferdinand Premium Kursk Edition 6495 – op. Citadel aftermath. - Done

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VLog1: Camo

VLog2: Deacls & Weathering

There are some more interesting kits out, one of I’m licking my fingers for are the new Ferdi with Strabo and Interior by Amusing Hobby for example.

That’s enough of a Textwall

[TheNordus]

That's quite an undertaking you're taking on, I'll be excited to see how it goes.

[digger303]

That's the ticket, I like your thinking.

[tankbrusher]

The first vehicle in this project is my old Ferdinand (Dragon 3653) as a vehicle of the Pz.Jg.Rg. 656 in its composed battle group of s.Pz.Jg.Abt. 653 & Stumpanzerabteilung 216.
Timeframe: October ‘43 after maintenance in Dnepropetrovsk. Operational within the Saporoshye Bridgehead. Important to note that at that time, the 2nd s.Pz.Jg.Abt. (654) was already transferred for refitting with the Jagdpanther end of August. Their remaining Ferdinand were used to keep at least one battalion at strength. From reading the overall situation for these vehicles was difficult, the regiment was split up, vehicles still in repair and they had to plug every hole that opened up.
For my interpretation I noted: show it was refitted, it should look heavily used but not like opened can. Destroyed Parts would have been replaced a week ago, so no significant damage.

I used Dunkelgelb nach Muster as a base color, what would be questionable since when these vehicles were painted the succeeding Dunkelgelb RAL 7021 was already available for close to month by then and the use of Dunkelgelb according to standard is questionable in general. However, in the bigger picture: The Bergepanzer Tiger(P) were converted in August/September ’43 and I wanted to separate him as later vehicle. (Ferdinand, last one left the assembly line 9.Mai '43)

Progress of the evening:
Mud texture added to the Drive area, needs still a little more adjustment.

VK4501-10.jpg

Front lower supplemental armor plate chipped and oiled.

VK4501-11.jpg

Tracks are in for repair. One is short by one link and I did not sand the exjector marks flush when I did build them frist.

VK4501-12.jpg

[alextheblue]

That's one hell of a project, but one I'm really looking forward following!

[tankbrusher]

Some more small steps, the lower part of the chassis is coming together. I still have to wait for a package to arrive since I do not want to use decals if I don't have to.

Usually I manage to fck up every build in last few steps. This time I think it is going well - I changed my process after watching Michael Rinaldi seminars on the IPMS Toronto Barbakan Channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU6q2g ... J_hXuboc3Q). Instead of doing this step over the whole model and then another, I simply finish one section and try to make it fit with its bordering neighbors.

Tomorrow I will start to dress up the Zvezda Ferdinand.

Unbenannt.jpg

[CygnusX1]

This looks to be quite the project - I hope it goes well, and would like to see more.

And I agree, Italeri Tiger kits are a lot of... fun

[digger303]

It's going well

[tankbrusher]

Zvezda Ferdinand (s.Pz.Jg.Abt. 654)

With the Dragon s.Pz.Jg.Abt. 653 Ferdiand in his weathering/finishing phase It was time to get the 2nd Ferdinand in its dress:
Zvezda placed its Kit into the 2nd Ferdinand battelion s.Pz.Jg.Abt. 654. Although both battalions were part of the same regiment the Abt. 654 is more or less to be seen as a indepened unit. There is a book out there: The combat History of the German Heavy Tankdestroyer Unit 654, i do not own it and can't get it via university. So no details here known by me.
However, in simple words, the 654 took the most of the beating during Operation Citadel. Some vehicles were captured and these are the main sources of images we can find all over the Internet. The spider web camo of the 654 is close to iconic when we talk about these vehicles by today. Zvezda gave us no decals for the Abt. 653 so we are stuck there, but since Zvezda is Russian company they are very close to the only surving Ferdinand at the Kubinka tank museum, it is not a bad thing - they went with what they have at thier front door...

This Kit is my only Ferdinad that is not a rebuild, but I assembled it about a year ago, my standards have changed since. I choose to display it how it would have looked within the staging area (near Orel) before Operation Citadel broke loose. This one should be as close to a brand new one as I can get it, just camo and tactical number applied. No field mods. Therefor I updated my Dragon one to show more of the typlical crew applied tuning.

Zvezda Ferdi 1.jpg

Starting with a redoxide underpainting followed by chipping fluid and its final apperence in Darkyellow Acording To Standard. I want to by the original order: factory primer, darkyellow, bar corsses, camo, tactical number...

What is new to me, is not using Decals for once. I bought a few sets of generic stencils and decided to spray the marking on this time. What could go wrong? Started with wrong color, pealed off my primer, messed up the alignment... well that'll be part of the video...

When it gets to the camo, i don't like what I got, to be honest - I think about repainting the casemate. The camo was sprayed on back than and it had a lot of runmarks when looking close. I tryed to replcate that with a 0.15mm nozzle a lots of paciants and the outcome is not that bad, I think. However, what nobody tells me in all of these tutorials out there is how arange things to look good. My problem here is more the where as the how to do the camo.

Dragon Ferdinand (s.Pz.jg.Abt. 653)

Since my last post, the left side track came on. After seeing my Zvezda Ferdiand, there was the need to show a little more use than I intended first. I removed a section of Fender, moved the jack and block to the rear and prepared some tracks a bracket to go on front as well as removing the spare tracks from the other fender, all common field modifiaction. And the bar crosses are sprayed on too.

Dragon Ferdi.jpg

[tankbrusher]

Well, another update, I guess.

VK4501-40.jpg

both Ferdiand are comeing along, the Zveuda Abt.654 one is nearly done, just some more cleanup and Details as well as the Tracks.

VK4501-41.jpg

VK4501-42.jpg

If I would say "I like the weathering process" it would be a lie. I can't get a good finish nomatter what I try. Artist's paint hues are too far off from what I need, so every single hue has to mixed on the fly - i have some skill in color matching, but it is too much f-ing around to be enjoyable in a longer term. Then I do own too many different brands with different qualities and properties destroying any consitency in a workflow. Finaly my oils dry flat, it is not looking good on semi-gloss. Ok I could coat them afterwards, but I would prefer to use the texture as part of the storytelling and not to normalize. And last but not least my high quality thinner eats even AKs Real Coulors for breakfast (yes: semi-gloss coated & full hardend). I give it one last chance: I'm waiting for some modelling-branded oils with its thinner to arrive. With the tool related issues solved after that, and if I'm still only skilled enough for beeing defeated by a 4y-olds first attempt - I go back to: pinwash, buff, pigments, done, beer. Sry for the rant

[digger303]

Don't be too discouraged. I'm like you preferring to build so I end up with a backlog of unpainted models. I can see the work you have done is better than you perceive it once you put a wash over it to tone down and blend the colors it will look great.

[Quax]

Digger is right dont be discouraged, just take your time and it will be great!

Paul

[tankbrusher]

Thank you guys for the motivating words. Yesterday my new Abteilung 502 sets arrived. I just played around with them a little. They work really well together with the ak thinner. I'm happy with how the engine deck came out, the top of the casematte needs still a little more tweaking until i can call it done and I was able to rescue the faded right side (where my thinner was eating the paint at the beginning. - AK oderless thinner is much softer than what used to have, much better now.

Together with the first wash on the tracks it is starting to come together.

654-41.jpg

654-40.jpg

[tankbrusher]

I would like to call the Zvezda Ferdinand done, but like I said, I manage to mess it up in the very last steps.

654-50.jpg

The pigmentfixer left a very ugly ring. First time I used pigments dry together with fixer (Alclad 2). Usually I use water and ipa as a medium to apply my pigments.

654-51.jpg

Any sugestions on how it can be fixed - or better dissolved again?

654-52.jpg

[digger303]

If there is a gloss varnish over the paint then I would try the odorless thinner very carefully. BUT I'm no expert then it comes to fixing things like this. If you used a matte varnish then very difficult to remove without taking the paint off as well.
It is caused by applying too much fixer or the edges are drying faster than the middle of the puddle. Adding a little retarder to the mix can help reduce that problem or start the clean up earlier before it has completely dried.
Sorry I can't be more helpful as I said I'm not that good with washes and filters. No one had answered you so I thought I'd chuck my two cents worth in.

[tankbrusher]

Thank you digger303,
unfortunately, odorless did not work, white spirit was too strong. I wiped the area clear of pigment - the fixer fixed only the rims... I will not work with pigments again for a while. (third vehicle in a row where pigments did not work for me.)
I ordered Mig's book about mud and dust + some products and will test some ways in that direction. I just don't like weathering at all and can't be bothered with unguided diy for the next few builds. Cooking according to recipe until I get at least somewhat of a result.

[digger303]

Thank you digger303,
unfortunatly oderless did not work, white spirit was too strong. I wiped the area clear of pigment - the fixer fixed only the rims... I will not work with pigments again for a while. (third vehicle in a row where pigments did not work for me.)
I ordered Mig's book about mud and dust + some products and will test some ways in that direction. I just don't like weathering at all and can't be bothered with unguided diy for the next few builds. Cooking according to recipy until I get at least somewhat of a result.

I use VMS pigments with their binders which are reversible and doesn't affect the paint. Chris has variations on the binders , one is always reversible and the other is only reversible for 8 hrs. So gives plenty of time to make corrections. I have some AK washes and filters that I'm still using , but some of these I will never buy again. I 'm pretty happy with the VMS products though.Videos on how to on the site.
https://www.vms-supplies.com/

[CygnusX1]

I think I commented on your YT vid for this build, but I think it bears saying again; this is a huge project and I think you're coming along nicely.
Sure you've had a few problems, and it's nice to see them and how you managed to fix them. Keep it up and do try not to get too discouraged as I think this is a great project.

[tankbrusher]

I use VMS pigments with their binders which are reversible and doesn't affect the paint. Chris has variations on the binders , one is always reversible and the other is only reversible for 8 hrs. So gives plenty of time to make corrections. I have some AK washes and filters that I'm still using , but some of these I will never buy again. I 'm pretty happy with the VMS products though.Videos on how to on the site.
https://www.vms-supplies.com/

Thank you again digger303. I had a look at VMS, i know their videos for while. Their products are not sold in my country. I bought the "Mud" and "Nature Effects" Category from Ammo of Mig, one of each and spend the last two evenings with getting familiar with these products. The "How to" book will arrive soon. I think Mud and Dust will be the key to a good "look" when it comes to the grey ones in my project.

I think I commented on your YT vid for this build, but I think it bears saying again; this is a huge project and I think you're coming along nicely.
Sure you've had a few problems, and it's nice to see them and how you managed to fix them. Keep it up and do try not to get too discouraged as I think this is a great project.

Hi, yes you did indeed. Thank you very much for your motivational support I will not let myself get discouraged. Ragemode - if it can be called so - lasts never long. I see it as part of the experience to try something, fail, fail again, adapt and then finally ... at least consolidate the losses That process of failing less over time is what I like to document somehow in my vids.

Fixed the top decks now with some Enamel effect paints, that made the vehicle much darker - I don't think it will suit the intended timeframe in early July anymore. But I found the 612 in Karl-Heinz Münch's book "The combat History... ...653" shown in August, similar camo to mine - far from perfect, no question about that - it survived Orel in good shape and was given to the 653th when the 654th left to be refitted with Jagdpanthers. So there is a little flexibility.

This is how it looks now, for my skills a good result, but by far not the end of the journey.

Ferdinand654-51.jpg

Ferdinand654-52.jpg

Ferdinand654-53.jpg

[digger303]

Good to see you soldiered on. I order my vms products direct.
It is a good project to work and it is a good build. Like all things it's practice which I still need a heap of.

[tankbrusher]

Well, it has been a while, but the next one is finished.
I updated the first post in this thread with the vlogs.
As far as weathering goes - in the end i bit the bullet and invested in some enamel products together with the books. Feels kind of cheap "buy and apply" instead of diy - but I truely needed a kickstart with some premade effects so I can learn from them.

Stash has been upgraded too, got myself the VK 3001 (P). Workbench got some upgrades too - Anycubic Photon S Resin Printer and Portrait 2 Plotter/Cutter. Can't wait to start on the next build

Forum-31.jpg

Forum-32.jpg

Forum-30.jpg

[CygnusX1]

Looks good to me. What are the red panels on the rear of the superstructure by the... antenna mount? Don't think I've ever seen red panels on a German tri-colour camo tank before.
This thread has been really interesting. Good work chap, keep it up.

[BigWall]

Great idea for a build project! It's coming along nicely.

[tankbrusher]

Looks good to me. What are the red panels on the rear of the superstructure by the... antenna mount? Don't think I've ever seen red panels on a German tri-colour camo tank before.
This thread has been really interesting. Good work chap, keep it up.

Thank you.
Let me explain the panels, however the ,,why" is a little simplyfied: During Operation Citadel the 653. Battalion was commanded from the rear, out of/from(?) a open vehicle. The Panels where used as a identification aid for longer ranges. They include the company by color (white,red,yellow) and the platoon through the small square. The 654 had a Ferdinand equiped staff Company Nst (small insignia) with II01 to II03 as Vehicles they commanded from within. Both 653 and 654 Battalions where independend before and after they where combined in the 656. Regiment - means they never adopted a common standard / style through beeing formed up within a regiment - these battalions can be attached to other regiments or work without one, that makes them strategicly more flexible - I guess.
Good reads are: Gun Power No.23 for the markings - compressed information and the two books for the long game by Karlheinz Münch: The Combat History of the German heavy tank destroyer unit 653. (2nd book replace 653 with 654)

[tankbrusher]

Hello mates,
it has been a while, but my project progressed

First: the old Bergepanzer Tiger (P) is restored to good condition (still not a masterpiece ) but with its new tracks and paintjob it doing better than before.
I went for RAL 7028 as a base coat. The real vehicle is shown on a photo series at the Nibelungenwerk during factory testing, mine is based roughly on these images.

Bergepanzer-100 - Kopie.jpg

Album on flickr: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmQfAiVK
Project on scale mates: https://www.scalemates.com/profiles/mat ... ject=82440
Video on Youtube:

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2nd: VK3001 (P) is now fully converted closer to the real vehicle back than. The Hobby Boss kit is not bad by itself and still it stretches into what if. (I guess tanks without a Turret / Gun don't sell ) I designed the coversion kit based my books and printed it. The windows were cut on my cutter/plotter. It left painting phase so it is still WIP.

Render - Kopie.jpg

VK3001P-100 - Kopie.jpg

(Updated start post)

[BigWall]

It's looking great!

[aur0ra145]

Nice progress!