Cigarettes and Alcohol... and Nazis.

[BOABModels]

Hello all,

I've recently been thinking about aftermarket decals and morality - massive subject, I'm sure you agree!

I mainly make car models and many models come sold like this, with the tobacco or alcohol adverts of yesteryear removed or substituted.


This is often in line with the French events as adverts of that nature have been banned in sport for a long time. It's not as common for alcohol adverts to be hidden, but it does sometimes happen.

Similarly, swastikas are removed from Nazi vehicles and uniforms routinely. Now in countries like Germany, this is a banned symbol, so again I understand the legality of it.

I am not a smoker and certainly not a Nazi, but I do like a drink now and again! I also know that if you visit a museum, read a text book or watch a documentary, these symbols are allowed to be shown - I just guess I want to know whether it is moral.

I totally agree with the ban on tobacco adverts and also feel that it is very important to learn about the horrors committed by the Nazis.

I guess I'm just considering whether it is right, especially since hundreds of people have now seen my work, to use tobacco adverts on my models? Or swastikas on planes or tanks?



Thanks for reading my ramblings!

[ElCapitan]

The way I see it, people visit museums or watch archive footage and see the symbols and learn their meaning, so what would be immoral about displaying them on our models which are essentially depictions of history? I understand not including them with the kits because they are often bought by and for children.

[BigWall]

As an ex-smoker, I know I didn't start because I saw the words on a race car. My kids are smart enough to not smoke even though I did. Morality should be taught by ones parents and not enforced by society. Those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it.

[BOABModels]

I think you've both given excellent reasons for using them.
As you say Rob, the reasons why they can't be sold with the kit is fair enough.

The main reason I wasn't sure about doing it was my grandmother disliked that there were cigarette logos on one of my Formula one models - I said I wanted to make it as realistic as possible. It made me worry that what I was doing was wrong.

[RangerNeil]

The point, I believe, is that these markings were/are historical. I see the point in banning them NOW but when the vehicles we build models of were in real use these are the markings they would have carried. I see nothing bad or evil in displaying these as such in historical context be they tobacco/beer adverts or the Hakenkreuz.

[Stokesy44]

I think there is a clear line between using historical drink and smoking sponsorship and the swastika on kits.

I see no reason why cars and bikes should not carry the original logos as its for historical accuracy, its not political or criminal and is highly unlikely to entice one to a life of booze and fags where one was once tee total and a monk.

Unlike the swastika, no one is going to unite behind a John Player Special advert and march on parliament square, spewing hate speech and all sorts of threats to people who dont share their world view.

Sadly, I agree with the banning of the swastika - not from model kits, but the reason for the ban. The countries where reproduction of it is banned took the decision to criminalise it, regardless of what it could be used for and I think that's right. As soon as you start legislating that it can be used for something like model kits then people will find a loophole in the law and produce it for other things.

I have no problem with putting it on models, its an integral part of how German aircraft looked. If it means us kit makers have to go to after market sources for it then its a small price to pay.

Sadly though, the banning of it hasnt stopped the marching. They just created a different sign to hide behind.

[Twokidsnosleep]

Wow is this a hot topic

I see no issue with cig ads on a plastic model
I don't build German WWII subjects personally but would never censor others from doing so.
Be thankful "they" have not pushed to ban all German WWII model kits
Banning the Confederate flag on the top of the General Lee car is another issue


I don't like the destruction of history as it is then bound to repeat itself in another form...oppressed become the oppressors
Would prefer people teach and learn what happened in history and what role figures may have had in that
People are super sensitized to anything against their current trending belief
For God's sake, people can't wear a mask in public vs a global pandemic health issue as it has been politicized and infringes on their personal rights
Gonna stop there

[BOABModels]

I think one of the things that made me think of this was that I saw some "what it" Nazi stuff! Like Nazi spaceships, and I was thinking "is that right?" like, that's not history. Are they glorifying the Nazis?

I am a historian myself, I should add. My degree is history and politics. I also totally think historical representation should be fine, like in the film "Rush" there are fag adverts all over the cars, even though the film came out after those adverts were banned.

[Stokesy44]

I think one of the things that made me think of this was that I saw some "what it" Nazi stuff! Like Nazi spaceships, and I was thinking "is that right?" like, that's not history. Are they glorifying the Nazis?

I am a historian myself, I should add. My degree is history and politics. I also totally think historical representation should be fine, like in the film "Rush" there are fag adverts all over the cars, even though the film came out after those adverts were banned.

Well said.

Also, this is one of the few places on the internet where this topic could be raised and we didnt end up screaming at each other.

As Squadron Leader Harvey said in the film, Battle of Britain, 'Break it off. Home and tea. For once you deserve it. Well done everybody,'

[Twokidsnosleep]

I think one of the things that made me think of this was that I saw some "what it" Nazi stuff! Like Nazi spaceships, and I was thinking "is that right?" like, that's not history. Are they glorifying the Nazis?

I am a historian myself, I should add. My degree is history and politics. I also totally think historical representation should be fine, like in the film "Rush" there are fag adverts all over the cars, even though the film came out after those adverts were banned.

Well said.

Also, this is one of the few places on the internet where this topic could be raised and we didnt end up screaming at each other.

As Squadron Leader Harvey said in the film, Battle of Britain, 'Break it off. Home and tea. For once you deserve it. Well done everybody,'

Good comment
Very true about the screaming, been snapped at on FB a few times

[BOABModels]

I think one of the things that made me think of this was that I saw some "what it" Nazi stuff! Like Nazi spaceships, and I was thinking "is that right?" like, that's not history. Are they glorifying the Nazis?

I am a historian myself, I should add. My degree is history and politics. I also totally think historical representation should be fine, like in the film "Rush" there are fag adverts all over the cars, even though the film came out after those adverts were banned.

Well said.

Also, this is one of the few places on the internet where this topic could be raised and we didnt end up screaming at each other.

As Squadron Leader Harvey said in the film, Battle of Britain, 'Break it off. Home and tea. For once you deserve it. Well done everybody,'

Very true about the screaming, been snapped at on FB a few times

Yeah, tell me about it..

Thanks, all! I was glad I could raise this here. Didn't feel sure about doing this on the Facebook group!