DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

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DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

Post by DRUMS01 »

It was suggested after we completed our Arado 196-B build that we build something armor related. So Jarrod and I are going "all-in" BIG for this next model. Here are some initial photos of what's coming:

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We started on it, but we do not have the photos to show just yet. This thing is B-I-G and that also means big seams sometimes. We are also finding some issues with the instructions along with a part or two.

More next update (soon)

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Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

Post by Engine95 »

Awesome! I’ve been looking forward to watching someone build one of these!

:banana:

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Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

Post by Stokesy44 »

Engine95 wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:52 am Awesome! I’ve been looking forward to watching someone build one of these!

:banana:

:pop:
Hold my beer! :pop:
Its been tried and tested, it works! So don't blame the system if you're no good. :doh:
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Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

Post by digger303 »

Bring it on
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Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

Post by Engine95 »

Stokesy44 wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:47 am
Engine95 wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:52 am Awesome! I’ve been looking forward to watching someone build one of these!

:banana:

:pop:
Hold my beer! :pop:
Sorry, I finished your pint. :lol:

What's your preferred brewed and fermented beverage in your neck of the woods?
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Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

Post by ForeverPlasticKits »

That will be a great build i'm sure, the kit is high quality! :thumb1:
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Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

Post by RangerNeil »

Looking forwards to seeing how this progresses as I am mightily tempted by the promised releaseof the Tiger I. :)
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    Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

    Post by Stokesy44 »

    Engine95 wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:09 pm
    Stokesy44 wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:47 am
    Engine95 wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:52 am Awesome! I’ve been looking forward to watching someone build one of these!

    :banana:

    :pop:
    Hold my beer! :pop:
    Sorry, I finished your pint. :lol:

    What's your preferred brewed and fermented beverage in your neck of the woods?
    Red wine or proper ale from the barrel
    Its been tried and tested, it works! So don't blame the system if you're no good. :doh:
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    Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

    Post by DRUMS01 »

    Sherman Easy Eight History:

    M4A3(76)W HVSS Sherman (also known as the "Easy Eight_, or M4A3E8) was an upped-gunned medium tank. A new suspension system, bigger main gun and improved protection made up the Sherman Easy Eight variant. Throughout World War 2 (1939-1945), the classic American M4 Sherman Medium Tank was subject to many tests and programs to help the series maintain a viable presence on the battlefield - particularly against the latest generation of German tanks. This eventually led to the Sherman being produced across several "generations" over its service life. First generation Shermans carried over several deficiencies from the M3 Grant Medium Tank line - from which it was largely based on - and this included its narrow track links as well as its Vertical Volute Spring Suspension (VVSS) system which gave poor ground performance.

    Even as the war raged, work was actively being done on improving the Sherman's qualities and this resulted in the finalization of the "Horizontal Volute Suspension System" (HVSS) coupled to wider track links. HVSS suspension increased the Sherman's weight by 2950lbs with the T66 single-pin track and 4780 lbs with the T84 double-pin track. HVSS allowed the installation of wider tracks, thereby decreasing the tank's ground pressure, and eased maintenance on the running gear since the bogie no longer had to be disassembled to remove road wheels. HVSS also provided more wheel travel, which gave the tank an easier and more stable ride, it also made the tank a much more stable firing platform. The HVSS was applied to the M4A3 production model and gave rise to the M4A3E8 / M4A3(76)W HVSS designations - nicknamed "Easy Eight".

    The turret was also enlarged to accommodate the more powerful 76 mm gun. Muzzle velocity of the 76 mm cannon, the vehicle's primary armament, was 792 m/sec, causing penetration of 101 mm of armor at a distance of 1,000 yards (914 m). Maximum range of the cannon in indirect fire mode was 15,000 yards (13,716 meters). From it's predecessor, the M4A3E8 inherited glacis sloped to 47 degrees to the vertical, while driver and co-driver vision slots were changed to periscopes housed in the top of the hatches.

    The new vehicles were also featured welded hulls (as opposed to cast) and were powered by Ford GAA V8 gasoline engines. The revised qualities improved firepower (putting the main armament closer to the capabilities of the German 75mm guns), armor protection and performance over the earlier Sherman models.

    The most significant change that distinguished the "Easy Eight" from it's predecessors was the "wet storage" of ammunition to reduce fire risk in the event of penetration from an enemy AP round. The primary place of storage of ammunition was moved from the side of the turret (dry storage) into protected folders on the floor of the tank under the turret (wet storage).

    Production forms were available as soon as August 1944 and the variant saw introduction during December of that year, seeing combat service during the Battle of the Bulge and beyond. Production of Easy Eights totaled 2,617 examples during August 1944. These were completed by the Detroit Tank Arsenal as well as the Fisher Tank. During is active service the "Easy Eight" was used by the American military in World War 2, Korea, and the Cold War. The vehicle is also known as M4A3(76)W. It took part in many after-war conflicts up to the Indo-Pakistani War of 1965.

    The "Easy Eights" began in early 1944 and continued until April 1945. The "Easy Eight" became the standard tank of the American 3rd and seventh Army in Europe, and after the war, was successfully deployed in Korea and the Middle East. In the postwar years, it was included in the armament of various Western Allied armies. A total of 4,542 M4A3 tanks of both suspension types were produced.


    The Model Kit:


    OK, First off, the box is as tall as it is wide, nearly 11 inches. As you can see by the previous post, the instructions cover was made to appear as a manual (TM or FM your choice) which is a nice touch. Along with the instructions there was a small 5x5 inch addendum to correct step 3 for the assembly of the inner rear fenders. It is my understanding that the earliest models in the release did not have that addendum. The instructions cover 28 major steps on 21 full size thick pages. Page 29 is a single instruction for the figure. The end of the manual contains several different decal applications for a WW2 variant.

    The kit contains 22 sets of sprue along with a single part for the upper and lower hulls and two parts for the main turret. The kit also contains a machine turned metal main gun barrel, soft spun wire for the tow cable, a PE brass screen,a clear sprue for the periscopes and light lenses, and decal sheet. The plastic is thicker and harder than most plastic kits. With this being our first 1/16 kit, perhaps this is the standard fare for this size of kit (?). The sprue appears free of any flash but seams and large attachment points to the sprue carriers are with every part, so be care when removing and take your time cleaning up every piece. The ejection pin marks which are visible on many parts seem to be hidden after assembly. You will have to remove some ejection pin plastic overflow in some places.

    Image

    NOTE: While this piece of armor was used in the Korean war and beyond, it does not provide any decals or paint schemes for that or any other period. Perhaps that is part of the companies marketing ploy, to release a later version including camouflage and tiger face markings (?).

    Assembly:

    Step 1 begins with partial assemblies of the lower rear, front, and bogies or return rollers on the lower hull.

    Image

    When beginning this build one thing is immediately clear, the detail is very crisp and the tank is LARGE.

    Image

    Image

    Another thing was obvious during assembly, and that was the fact that every single joint of any two parts during assembly creates a very noticeable seam that will need additional attention.

    Image

    Completion of the pre-subassemblies for step 1 looks like this:

    Image

    The return rollers and main bogies are all attached by pressure, no gluing required. When trying to attach part P21 it was clear that the holes made in the lower hull to not match the pegs on the part. My solution was to use the forward hole and trim the rear peg off of P21 so it would fit flush on the hull. Alignment of P21 was still easy as it was parallel with the angle of the join between the hull and track fender.

    Image

    So far, all of the parts fit tightly into their individual joints. Other observations identify some parts that might be a single piece by other manufacturers are comprised of 2-5 parts by TAKOM. While that is not terrible, it does take more effort to achieve the same results.

    During Step 1 we found that one of the guide pins on the top of the lower hull, which aides the upper hull alignment, was sheared off and missing. Our solution was to add a new guide pin from our spare plastic parts.

    Image

    After a good days work Jarrod and I completed Step 1. The return rollers are not fully attached, only sitting on the post for the photo. We are going to paint all of the road wheels and sub assemblies prior to attaching them to the lower hull. This photo brings up another question, why did TAKOM make a square hole in the center of the lower hull? Perhaps TAKOM also markets this upper and lower hull assembly for RC tanks and it has a purpose for it (?).

    Image

    Up next, Step 2, so stay tuned for our next post. Till then, thanks for watching and as always, comments are welcome (and encouraged).

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    Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

    Post by Stokesy44 »

    A very good start to the kit and the post.

    Mine is on the floor in the den so I am watching this like a hawk for clues and warnings! :th:
    Its been tried and tested, it works! So don't blame the system if you're no good. :doh:
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    Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

    Post by WordenB »

    I watched Andy's HQ videos on this one but nice to see it in the flesh, very impressive so far.
    My completed efforts are here viewtopic.php?t=29294
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    Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

    Post by digger303 »

    :th: :th: :th:
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    Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

    Post by DRUMS01 »

    Stokesy44, how is it going to get built just sitting on the floor? (just kidding). I hope my normal long winded approach on the kit will reveal stuff that is valuable to others; at least that is a large reason why I do these detailed build blogs. I will continue to try and point out the good and not so good throughout the build.

    WordenB, I watched all of his videos prior too. It is funny how easy and simple he makes it look / sound (I think we call that sales and marketing). I'm finding that every single part needs to have seams removed. Some also have large sprue attachment points that require attention prior to attaching to the model (even after using a nice sprue cutter). While I know that is normal with almost every model kit, these are large pieces and I guess because the scale is large that may be the norm. So what I'm really saying is you need to allow for the additional parts cleaning because even without flash it is a time consuming task. I do like the crisp detail and tight fitment so far, that is a big plus.

    OK digger and all other followers, time for Step 2. This step is another pre-assembly for Step 3 and involves the rear sprocket drives (B), rear tow pintle (C), upper track rollers (D), and right and left exhaust (E, F).

    Image

    This step was easy to understand and quick to assemble.

    TIP: In sub-assembly C they show to glue all three parts, but Jarrod and I found that if you DO NOT GLUE part R30 you can have a functional towing pintle. While that may not seem like a big deal, there may be a time when you may want to add a trailer or tow cable down the road. Nothing more to report other than more seam cleaning for item (D) and the exhaust (E, F).

    Step 3, along with the 3x3 addendum sheet focuses on adding details to the rear of the lower hull.

    Image

    Image

    The tow shackles (partM19) were very difficult to snap into place over the attach points (M33). I've read in another builders blog that they removed a portion of the knob inside each tow shackle to allow it to snap into place easier. We found that with a little more pressure than you may be used to it will have the shackle snap in just fine. The rear drives (step B assembly B) easily attached to the rear of the hull with positive attachment points and a tight fit. The inner return rollers are suppose to be added but we are only setting them in place (without applying any pressure) so Jarrod and I can paint them prior to complete assembly. The addendum identified parts R6 and R7 which are the inner fender portion of the rear fenders and fit well and with a positive pin location.

    IMPORTANT NOTE: Pay attention to the images for the orientation of the inner fenders as the bolt heads should face towards the center of the hull. Failure to do that will result in having to remove the bolt heads when attaching the remaining rear fender parts and you will loose that detail.

    Jarrod and I also left the exhaust off to allow them and the hull to be painted separately. So with all this said, here is what the rear of the lower hull looks like now.

    Image

    And now on to Step 4, the HVSS suspension. One more time the step begins with creating four sub assemblies six times. We are not going to pretend that we know what each of the assemblies are called, so we will say this. Study every step carefully before attaching the parts. The are several places where NO CEMENT is called out. If you cement where is indicated not to cement you will not have a working suspension on your model. In sub-assembly "G", we do not understand why you are instructed not to glue parts L29 to each side. They are not real working springs or bladders and do not move after the complete HVSS suspension is assembled, but we followed the kit instructions and left them half cemented.

    Image

    IMPORTANT NOTE: Be careful when adding parts L25 and L26 for two reasons. First is that only the outer end of the pivot pin shows detail (the inner end is just a stub). Second, and most important, be very careful when attaching those parts to the left and right suspension arms. Specifically, make sure the flat face with the bolt heads are oriented on the part correctly (look at their orientation in the main part of Step 4. If the flat face of the pivot pin is accidentally oriented towards sub-assembly G, the model will not allow you to finish the HVSS suspension in Step 5. (Don't ask how I know this).

    Step 5 will have you complete the six HVSS suspension assemblies and add them to the lower hull along with adding the rest of the rear fenders. We have a surprise for you here, the instructions once again have several sub assemblies to make before finishing the suspension.

    Image

    The sub assembly is straight forward but I have three things to bring up here. First, when making the 24 road wheels you will need to remove a prominent seam in the center:

    Image

    Second, when attaching parts L11, L7, and L14 make sure that the orientation of the finished Step 3 is correct.

    Image

    And third, I found that the axles that attach the road wheels through the assemblies suspension arms fit very snug or even tight. While one other builder would have you use a drill bit to slightly enlarge the hole, I found that using a file and sandpaper both inside the hole and on the axle shaft will do the same thing. If you want a rolling track system, these need to roll freely.

    Image

    And here they are, all six completed. In summary, just study the instructions carefully and pay attention to the orientation of parts during the assemblies and things will go well.

    Image

    Jarrod and I want to say thanks for following along. Please let us know if this type of blog is helpful or if we should cut it down to just the basics. Thanks in advance for your input,.... till next update.

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    Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

    Post by digger303 »

    I won't be buying one of these, but I do find it interesting and instructive to follow each step of the build. I do have a new acquaintance who isn't a member of ISM and has bought one is following your build after I gave him the link.
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    Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

    Post by Gary30 »

    DRUMS01 wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 1:26 amI watched all of his videos prior too. It is funny how easy and simple he makes it look / sound (I think we call that sales and marketing). I'm finding that every single part needs to have seams removed. Some also have large sprue attachment points that require attention prior to attaching to the model (even after using a nice sprue cutter).
    Yeah really interesting, I watched his videos too and thought it looked like an amazing kit and a seamless (excuse the pun) build, interesting to hear some real world experience and know that everything isn't always quite as it appears.

    It still looks like a great kit though, who doesn't love a Sherman! You're doing great work so far, keep it going :clap:
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    Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

    Post by Stokesy44 »

    Its great to follow on so far but if the snagging reports become too onerous and take away your enjoyment of the build please feel free to cease and desist!

    I'm a relatively careful builder so please dont worry about protecting me from myself. Just the occasional 'be careful with' will do. Its great seeing you and Jarrod powering through though. Those suspension units look nice and tasty. :clap: :clap:
    Its been tried and tested, it works! So don't blame the system if you're no good. :doh:
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    Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

    Post by RangerNeil »

    I am liking the additional detail. Thanks to yourself and Jarrod for going the extra mile here. But, as Stokesy says, if it gets too onerous and detracts from the joy of building for you both feel free to dial back. :)
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      Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

      Post by Mpfiend »

      Nice progress so far Ben and Jarrod,
      the layout of your "blog" is very well done, I really like the explanations and the extra detail you are adding.
      I have this kit in my "to do pile" so I am finding it very useful indeed.
      Regards,
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      Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

      Post by DRUMS01 »

      Jarrod and I have been very busy trying to get various sub-assemblies together and ready for paint. This update is all about Step 6 which is all about building and adding the tracks to the chassis.

      Image

      The front main drive sprocket and rear idler wheels are straight forward and fit well (other than the obvious seam cleaning). The building of the tracks are also easy but VERY time consuming. We can say that it takes a considerable amount of time to remove the individual three parts per link from the sprue, clean up sprue tabs (8 per track link assembly along with mold lines).

      Image

      Image

      Perhaps that is because this is our first fully articulating individual track link system like this we've ever assembled, and these are different than the 1/35 metal with pin track assembly. We also do not know if this is the standard method TAKOM uses for all its 1/16 tanks, or if it is unique for the Sherman (?). The instructions are kind of lacking in the step by step assembly method so we will break it down here.

      Image

      To start you will need two of the outer track link with pins, placed together in the half pin cradle.

      OUTER VIEW of 2 Parts B1
      Image

      INNER VIEW of 2 Parts of B1
      Image

      The next step is to add one of the inner track parts to overlap and capture the track pin. It is easiest to glue Part B2 on the large rectangle area shown in the above photos as it will be totally hidden inside part B2 and eliminate any risk of accidentally gluing a track pin. The plastic used in the track links is robust enough to securely capture the track pin and hold it tight, even without adding cement on the inner hinge points (around the track pin).

      INNER or EXPOSED VIEW of B2 single part.
      Image

      PARTS B1 and PART B2 COMBINED
      Image

      This is continued by adding Part B1 and then another pin capture by Part B2 until you have 76 of the 77 links assembled for each side. Next should be filing the joint of the tracks inside each hinge point as they tend to slightly stick to the next track and not articulate smoothly.

      SEAMS
      Image

      FILED SEAMS
      Image

      The third part of each track link is the track guide. These require cleaning prior to assembly for a straight, secure, and aligned fit.

      Image

      Once cleaned, they are attached to each Part B2 in the identified slot (77 total on each side). In summary, the assembly of one sides tracks will require 231 parts, sanding or filing 616 sprue points and 154 inner track joints. While it is not difficult, it definitely is time consuming, but worth it based on the end results. Jarrod and I took a couple days for each side of tracks.

      The instructions would have you add the completely assembled tracks but we have decided to keep them off for painting. Instead of adding the tracks in the closed method as shown in the instructions, we are going to feed one of the open ends through the sprocket, return rollers, idler, and road wheels then add the final link (much like you would a real tank).

      Thanks for following along, and as always Jarrod and I like to hear from you concerning the build and any ideas you may have along the way. Next up is Step 7, till then stay tuned and happy modeling.

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      Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

      Post by digger303 »

      I am very surprised with the track seam and the fact it needs filling. I would have preferred to have gone the other way and inserted individual pins. Even if it meant some drilling and cutting the pins to size from some rod.
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      Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

      Post by Stokesy44 »

      digger303 wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:33 pm I am very surprised with the track seam and the fact it needs filling. I would have preferred to have gone the other way and inserted individual pins. Even if it meant some drilling and cutting the pins to size from some rod.
      :th: :th: :th:
      :cheers2:
      Seems to be the way with the new 1/16 offerings. If you look at the older Trumpeter releases they all came with solid links and separate track pins. Much better option IMHO. You still had to attach the guidehorns on some kits but that was it. The pins didnt even need glue to stay in.
      Its been tried and tested, it works! So don't blame the system if you're no good. :doh:
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      Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

      Post by DRUMS01 »

      digger, Stokes; we agree with both of you regarding the track types.

      Hey, I recently found some cool images of the HVSS suspension from an old Army manual, check them out:

      Image

      Image

      Image

      Image

      Image

      Image

      Based on the exploded views it had to be a maintenance, possibly depot manual. At least now Jarrod and I know what to call the parts going forward.

      We took a break half way through the second track to begin building up other sub-assemblies. We look forward in sharing the next build update with you soon.

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      Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

      Post by Stokesy44 »

      Great stuff. When I see things like this it amazes me how this stuff is built. Then when you add on the whole 'arsenal of democracy' stuff about the manufacturing power of the US in WW2 it boggles the mind how these things were built and in such numbers so quickly. And thank God they were.
      Its been tried and tested, it works! So don't blame the system if you're no good. :doh:
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      Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

      Post by digger303 »

      Stokesy44 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 7:47 am Great stuff. When I see things like this it amazes me how this stuff is built. Then when you add on the whole 'arsenal of democracy' stuff about the manufacturing power of the US in WW2 it boggles the mind how these things were built and in such numbers so quickly. And thank God they were.
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      Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

      Post by cor »

      Looks like a lot of work, but will be an excellent model when finished.
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      Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

      Post by DRUMS01 »

      by cor » Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:51 pm

      Looks like a lot of work, but will be an excellent model when finished.


      Well COR, I have to say that other than several 1/12 race cars and a couple 1/16 vehicles, this is the largest plastic kit I've built. The tooling quality and mold detail make it both fun and a challenge to keep up with it. We just hope our skills are good enough to do justice to this kit.

      Time for an update, now at Step 7. So Jarrod and I moved away from the lower hull and begin modeling inside the upper hull.

      Image

      The image in the bottom of the step shows where to drill 1.5mm holes for the lift rings. We noticed that there seems to be two options as to where to drill the holes. There must be another version coming that will use the other set of holes (?).

      The inner machine gun collet is a one way fit and goes in place easily.

      The "T" parts are all clear. We added the clear periscopes knowing we will have to do some careful masking when painting the overall tank. One thing Jarrod and I did not know regarding the Sherman's periscopes was that the driver and machine gunner positions have a periscope in the hull facing forward and another in the individual hatches that can be positioned by each member. If anyone knows why the tank was manufactured that way and the benefits of the design of two periscopes per member we would like to know.

      Parts P32 represent the hatch springs. While it is a nice thing to see them along with the hatch locks representing good detail; without other interior detailing and with the instructions having you cement the hatches shut, one would question if the internal detail is justified(?). The hatch springs as tooled also leave a gap around the exposed top of the hatch by the slightest bit. If you are pondering assembling the hatches open on your build, those seams will have to be fixed. Otherwise the fit and details are wonderful.

      Step 8 begins the assembly of the upper hulls external parts. We're continuing to see that many of the items that would normally be molded into the main hull assembly in 1/35 are represented by many single parts in 1/16. Step 8 keeps us busy at the front of the hull working on the machine gun and hatches as well as numerous other small stuff, including the lift rings for the holes drilled in Step 7.

      Image

      As with most other steps, this step also has you build several sub-assemblies. We're not entirely sure why the hull machine gun is made up of 4 parts (one being the rear sight which will not be seen with the hatch closed or with a crew member poking their head out of the hatch). And that does not include the 4 other parts for the ball pivot and armor plate. This kit is begging for a detailed interior so the extra details within the kit can be shown off.

      Image

      The inside of the hatch sub-assemblies contain another 4 parts each and this does not even include the periscope sub-assembly which contained another 4 parts. The fit here continues to be excellent and the detail is superb showing mold numbers, screw heads, etc.

      Image

      A nice feature within the kit is that the builder can make their own decision to add the periscope or make the periscope cover in the closed position.

      Image

      Once again, this makes for great detail if the builder chooses to assemble the hatches in the open position, but all the internal detail of the hatches will be for nothing if the hatches are assembled in the fixed closed positions (?). In the images below you can see that one of the periscope guards in our kit was broken clean across the middle. Jarrod and I first tried to fix it by gluing the broken ends but they did not want to cooperate so we trimmed them off and replaced the rod with steel wire.

      Image

      Image

      So you only have an option of open or closed in fixed positions right?, no so fast my fine feathered friend. When looking at the pivot points for the hatches it became clear to me that if you wanted, you could drill the center points of the hatch hinge and hull to add a rod (pivot pin), thus making them operational (opened or closed at your whim). The process is easy and adds functionality towards future modifications.

      Image

      Image

      Step 9 continues the detailing of the front upper hull focusing on the light protector brackets, drivers mirrors, and forward hull vent (between the drivers).

      Image

      For this build Jarrod and I are choosing to leave the mirrors and light brackets off until the upper and lower hulls are assembled along with the tracks. So, not much to show for Step 9 except the single PE screen used with the front hull vent.

      Image

      Step 10 is a preparatory step to build the rear engine covers that become part of the upper hull behind the turret (see above image). These are not designed to be functional, which is just fine as there is no detail inside the hull to see.

      Step 11 will have you add the engine covers to its framing and then to the upper hull. Prior to adding the covers you need to drill four holes on each side of the frame for the assembly pins on the fixed hinges. Once again, it is strange to us why they can produce exceptional details in the molding but not be able to have those holes already open as part of the mold process (?). Jarrod and I were going to modify the hinges to make them functional but for the considerable effort needed and no details inside the engine compartment we thought better of it.

      The framing for our engine screened covers was slightly warped. The warping caused a gap on both sides of the frame towards the rear of the hull. To solve the problem Jarrod and I cemented one side and then puled (squeezed) the plastic together to close the gap and then glue the other side to the forward edge of the frame. I repeated the process for the other side which brought the engine cover assembly back to square.

      Image

      The next image shows the engine cover assembled to the top of the hull along with the remaining (rear) upper hull plate that normally contains part of the pioneer tools. Jarrod and I chose to leave them off until the painting of the hull was complete.

      Image

      Stay tuned for our next update, beginning with Step 12. Thanks for following and for your input / responses.

      Ben and Jarrod

      PS: Jarrod says "HI!"
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      Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

      Post by digger303 »

      :th: :th: :th:
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      Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

      Post by Stokesy44 »

      Lovely work and coverage. Looks like a cracking kit and its coming along nicely.
      Its been tried and tested, it works! So don't blame the system if you're no good. :doh:
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      Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

      Post by Mpfiend »

      Another informative and detailed update, thank you both.
      Regards,
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      Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

      Post by BigWall »

      Nice work and problem solving. Thanks for your detailed build threads guys!
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      Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

      Post by RangerNeil »

      One thing Jarrod and I did not know regarding the Sherman's periscopes was that the driver and machine gunner positions have a periscope in the hull facing forward and another in the individual hatches that can be positioned by each member. If anyone knows why the tank was manufactured that way and the benefits of the design of two periscopes per member we would like to know.
      The answer - I think - is relatively simple. Field of vision
      Looking through those 'scopes is akin to looking through a letter box. You have a VERY narrow view of whats in front but not to the sides.
      Having a movable periscope increases the vision and thus the situational awarenes of the crew.
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        Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

        Post by DRUMS01 »

        by RangerNeil » Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:13 am

        One thing Jarrod and I did not know regarding the Sherman's periscopes was that the driver and machine gunner positions have a periscope in the hull facing forward and another in the individual hatches that can be positioned by each member. If anyone knows why the tank was manufactured that way and the benefits of the design of two periscopes per member we would like to know.
        The answer - I think - is relatively simple. Field of vision
        Looking through those 'scopes is akin to looking through a letter box. You have a VERY narrow view of whats in front but not to the sides.
        Having a movable periscope increases the vision and thus the situational awarenes of the crew.


        I know they needed to be able to view approximately 180 degrees of the right, left, and front; what I was asking was if they have a periscope in the hatch that can do that (including forward), then why do they have an additional periscope in the hull that is fixed facing forward. Because they already have the forward view achieved in the hatch periscopes then what purpose is the additional fixed forward scope? It's almost like the fixed front periscopes offset to the forward center of the hull were in the initial design and they said, "Oops, that is not the optimal configuration, lets add a positionable one in the hatches", but during the update they never removed the fixed ones in the hull?. There is no other location on the tank that has both a position capable periscope and also a fixed one, so why both a fixed and positionable one for the driver and machine gunner?

        When looking are the many images available of the welded hull, you can see several variations of the front periscopes; some with the four and others with just the two positionable in the hatches (?). Most M4A3E8 variants have the four (two fixed in the hull and one in each hatch), but I cannot find any reason why there are four versus just the two in the hatches.
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        Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

        Post by RangerNeil »

        WW2 logic is outside my experience - all I can say is that it was a time of learning exponentially so things were tried and then retried slightly dfferently. Fixed periscopes are ideal for crew such as drivers whilst mobile, movable ones are ideal for commanders & gunners whilst mobile and other crew members whilst static.
        My experience is Cold War which incorporates most of the WW2 lessons - drivers get fixed periscope blocks that give between 180 to 270 deg of vision depending on vehicle type whilst vehicle commanders got movable scopes, sometimes with an IR spotlight, that are usually a part of the hatch. I can give you some photos of what I mean but they will be of a BMP-1.
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          Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

          Post by DRUMS01 »

          Thanks for the further explanation Neil. Being in the Armored Cavalry during my military time, I understand the concept, but the dual periscopes and how they are configured on certain M4's is kind of quirky to me. Early M4's did not have any periscope ports, only vision slits. Later the earlier cast hull eventually had a couple variations in the fixed forward position. In certian versions of the welded hull, they incorporated fixed ones in the hull. Later the fixed ones remained and the positionable ones appeared in the oval hatches. In those, the two fixed forward scopes are in the center of the hull and not in a position to be easily used by either person while the movable scopes are in the hatches and easily manipulated by both the driver and gunner while at their stations. If I ever get the "official" explanation I will share it with everyone.

          Ok, enough of me pondering over the dual periscopes in the forward hull. Now it's on to Steps 12 and 13 which involved the rear lights, lift rings, tools, side fender extensions, and other fiddly bits.

          Image

          Like the front small parts, we are leaving the rear ones off until the upper and lower hulls are assembled together. As I age I have this rather annoying tendency to bend or break small things when working on the larger parts. Keeping these pieces off until the larger assemblies are combined reduces the chance of doing that. One group of parts we did add was the raised fuel cap protection ring on each side (R15, R16). They fit and look great, weld seam and all. They even have the correct drainage holes.

          BEFORE:
          Image

          AFTER:
          Image

          Image

          As you can see on the parts added near the turret (P5), they did not match up with the forward portion of the bullet splash rib very well so extra shaping was needed. Being the right side needed more shaping than the left we did accidentally filed or sanded off some of the serial numbers on the right side part (OOPS!).

          We've read in other similar builds that some builder's chose to leave the side fender extensions (R2, R36) off until the hull was assembled but we followed the instructions to cement them to the hull.

          Steps 14 and 15 continue with the remaining small parts on the upper hull and the sub-assembly of the M4A3 exhaust gas deflector system as part of Step 15.

          Image

          The spare track links use the external track portion that does not have the track pin molded with it (B2). They were assembled in the same manner as the other track links and set aside to be painted separately. As with the other smaller parts, we decided to leave the fender support brackets off until the hulls are assembled. Credit should be given to the model creators as the multi part exhaust gas deflector assembly went together easily and have positive connection ribs or indentions where needed.

          NOTE: Care needs to be taken when adding the center support rod between the exhaust louvers as it will go all the way to the inner support easily but that will then not allot it to go into the hole in the outer most louver. The support pin should reside from the second louver to the last (exterior louver). The gas deflector will fit tightly between the rear fenders and rest on two pins allowing it to move. Pay attention to the orientation of the exhaust gas deflector as it will fit more than the correct way (backwards).

          And finally, one of my questions is answered by placing a plug in the square hole in the bottom of the chassis (Q14). Did we mention previously that the inner hull is begging for an interior?

          Steps 16 and 17 get us to the point of fixing the hull halves together and building the rear stowage rack.

          Image

          Before we do this we are going to paint the hulls interior white. This is where we are facing our own self created dilemma. We are looking to see if it is possible for us to create a large part of the hull and turret interior from scratch before we button up the two main assemblies. We feel confident that we could create the walls, floor, and various boxes, BUT we are not sure if we can create the gunners station, wet ammo storage, transmission or transfer, and lower turret good enough to pass muster. Then there is the auxiliary power unit, the rear turret vent system, seats, controls, radios, TC controls, and much more. If we truly try to make this look authentic and worth the effort, this build may last a couple years and I'm not so sure we have that level of committment to the project. Then again, if we purchase additional figures, most of the detail will be hidden as they poke out of the hatches.

          As we ponder this, we did assemble the rear stowage rack. The details and fit are exceptional. While the instructions show you how to assemble it in the open position, the parts will actually allow you to assemble it in the open or close position as the side hinges are two parts and can be cemented either way to go along with the position of the rack. We are going to assemble ours in the open position to allow for extra stowage. The details of the bracket and cleaning rods are a very nice touch. Once completed you can even see the individual wing nuts as separate parts of the assembly.

          Image

          This is where we will leave you until we make the decision on the interior. I can't remember, did we mention that this tank cries for a detailed interior and turret? Still all said, this is a very nice model. The detail and fit for the most part is simply wonderful. Regardless if we detail the interior or not, it will have to be painted white before we combine both main assemblies. With that in mind we may move forward with the main gun assembly as it will be white as well. Next update will inform you on the direction we will take regarding the interior. Till then, remarks are always encouraged. Also, if you have any ideas or tips for the interior please let us know.

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          Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

          Post by digger303 »

          I think you summed up the situation in regards to the interior well and as seeing you have already started this kit. Not interior available off the shelf at this point in time You have 3 options.....Button it up ( not palatable ), put it aside after all work is done and not glue the deck on and wait hoping for a interior to become available or scratch build one.
          I think you want to finish it then using figures to fill the hatch ways is possibly your choice.
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          Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

          Post by RangerNeil »

          Just a thought - can you leave the upper and lower hulls seperate, just placed together, until you decide on the interior or one becomes available??
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            Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

            Post by DRUMS01 »

            Neil my boy, you are brilliant! Not sure why I didn't think of that. We would really love to add an interior some day, and I would prefer it was a resin add-on and not scratch built. Jarrod and I will purchase a few figures to fill the holes until the interior kit comes available. I checked the fit of the top and bottom and it looks like I can do just that. Now I can go back and finish the small items I kept off. :banana:

            So Jarrod and I went back several steps and finished the fiddly whatchamacallit's. We're not going to re-invent each step, instead were just going to show you the new assembled items.

            Here is a better photo of the upper hull around the fluid caps and the engine deck:

            Image

            And here is the front with the lights and mirrors attached. As you can see I folded the mirrors in towards the hull as most M4's lost them early in battle. For those that kept them they turned them in towards the hull to avoid any reflections off the mirrors which could compromise their position.

            Image

            Staying with the upper hull, here are the side fender extensions of the M4A3E8 HVSS suspension and wider tracks completed:

            Image

            Image

            Back to the lower hull this shows some better pictures:

            FRONT:
            Image

            REAR:
            Image

            Here are the gas and water cans completed along with a chain added to the fuel can's cap:

            Image

            And here are some of the pioneer tools that will be painted separately. If you look close you can see that we added wood grain where appropriate. We did this by using the edge of a hand file to scratch those areas. Once painted, we will used a thin wash to bring out the grain. We found this method works well when we added the pioneer tools to the SAS jeep model.

            Image

            Jarrod and I are still working on the rear lights and stowage rack. Next update should have them complete and moving on to Step 18.

            Till then....

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            Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

            Post by Stokesy44 »

            Nice clean build and good photos too.

            Good call waiting on an interior too. You can carry on and finish the kit how you like then open her up if and when an aftermarket product come out.
            Its been tried and tested, it works! So don't blame the system if you're no good. :doh:
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            Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

            Post by RangerNeil »

            Looking good!! :) I have to admit to being impressed with the lovely detailing on the moulds - like the cast finish and the weld seam....
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              Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

              Post by digger303 »

              :th: :th: :th:
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              Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

              Post by ForeverPlasticKits »

              Such a huge kit, you build it the best way it could be! :thumb1:
              I'm very impressed by the quality and the lot of details, but the tracks are a bit frustrating with the adjustment, whatever it's very interesting to follow your post. :thumb2:
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              Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

              Post by cor »

              Looking good. What a project.
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              Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

              Post by DRUMS01 »

              Thanks Stokesy, I thought Neil's idea was great as it let me move forward with the remaining assemblies so everything will be ready for paint.

              Hey Neil, if you ike the texture and weld seams, you should see all the individual NSN and Serial Numbers on the specific parts. I hope to be able to bring some of that out in the paint process. :eeek:

              ForeverPlasticKits, I totally agree with you regarding the track assembly. It definitely could've been worse, but it also could've been better too. One things for sure though and that is the extra filing and sanding is totally worth it.

              You know digger, every time I see the pints clanking together in your response I have to go get a drink :cheers2:

              Well, it's been some time since the last update, so.....

              Step 18 is more upper hull work, focusing now on the tow cable end connections, the barrel travel lock assembly, and the armored first aide box.

              Image

              The kits location for the tow cable reflects the late war Fisher Body updated location. The detail once again is outstanding as it has separate parts for the clamp base, upper clamp hinge, and wing nut tie downs. The ends of the tow cable are a single part that is molded with a hollow end for the metal tow cable provided in the kit.

              Image

              The kits barrel travel lock reflects a late war style. It too has excellent detail and goes together easily. The instructions indicate it should be cemented but we found that it can be snapped into place at the hull's hinge points. This will make it movable which will aide in the painting of the model as well as future modifications or customization. Another nice touch is the working locking mechanism for the barrel travel lock on the upper front of the hull. In the photo below you can also see a better image of the completed front tow cable end assembly.

              Image

              Image

              Before building the kit we did not have much history or knowledge about Sherman tanks. That was evident in much of the HVSS suspension terminology. Another place that came up was when building the armored first aide box. Frankly, we thought this might have been a phone or intercom for infantry leaders to communicate with the members inside. While there are some variants that have the intercom phone, this one is not one of them and it is normally located on a fender at the rear of the tank. The aide box was straight forward to assemble and gave you a choice of clip locks. Care should be taken to remove all the seams as it is in full view once attached to the hull.

              Image

              Before we go to Step 19, Jarrod and I want to catch you all up on other images of completed assemblies.

              Added tie downs and pioneer tool holders:
              Image

              Here is the rear stowage rack built in the open position:
              Image

              We have so much more to update, but that will have to be another time as it's time for Jarrod's medication and bed time.

              Till next update.... thanks for following along. Comments always welcome and encouraged!

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              Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

              Post by digger303 »

              Splendid build and update.
              Not sure if this is of any help or you already know it, but....
              http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/
              :th: :th: :th: :th:
              :cheers2:
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              DRUMS01
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              Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

              Post by DRUMS01 »

              Thanks digger for the link. Actually we've been using that site since early in the build (when building the HVSS suspension). It is the best site I've found. We also located two others that proved to be good sources of information too, but the Sherman minutia site is definitely the best.

              Time for another update, Steps 19 and 20, all involving the turret (finally). As you can see, Step 19 involves the gunner's hatch, gunner's periscope, spotlight, pistol port, and small bits.

              Image

              NOTE 1: The instructions would have you glue the gunners hatch springs to both the hatch and the turret mount (J7, J8),... do not do that. Instead, just cement the springs to the hatch and align them with the hinge and you will have a working hatch.

              Image

              NOTE 2: Careful positioning of the gunner's hatch lock (J17, J1) will allow you to use it as well.

              HATCH LOCK POSITION:
              Image

              GUNNER'S HATCH USING HATCH LOCK:
              Image

              The spotlight can be positioned in the stow position or up and posed; we placed our's in the stowed position as shown in the instructions. As normal, the detail and fit is wonderful. The gunner's periscope was assembled like the others and had the same excellent accuracy and fit.

              Another thing we did not know about was the turret smoke grenade launcher. It comes out in front of the loader's station at the leading edge of the turret. When not in used, this version has a representation of a screw-on cap. Other versions sometimes were taped, had a small soft cover, or it was removed and welded shut. The screw on cap version normally contained a small chain from the top of the cap to a welded spot on the hull. Jarrod and I added a small piece of chain for authenticity.

              Image

              The square hatch looking item on the left side of the turret is called the Pistol Port (another thing we didn't know). Depending on the variant, some had them, others didn't, and some were welded shut as a factory modification (?). Here is the Pistol Port assembly:

              Image

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              For what I believe is called the exterior gun sight(?), (J9,J18,J20) we added it with a slight modification. Jarrod and I removed the larger top ring which was solid on the kit part, and replaced it with solder to make the see-through hole.

              Step 20 is to assemble the turret ventilator, antenna bases, M2 50 cal. stowage, and 50 cal. barrel lock when stored in the gun mount. The rear turret storage position for the 50 cal has two options, one being empty and the other with a barrel (spare in our case). The turret ventilation outlet is co-located at the back of the turret and also contains the mount to store the M2 50 cal. when not in the normal gun mount. Everything at the rear of the turret assembled easily and fit well.

              Image

              NOTE 3: According to the instructions, all three pieces of the 50 cal. barrel holder are shown to be cemented together then on to turret,.... do not do this. If you carefully cement only the two part hull mount (J13, J14) a then to the hull, it will allow the actual barrel mount to pivot as on the actual vehicle.

              And here is the turret after Steps 19 and 20:

              Image

              And that concludes the updates for today. Stay tuned for more soon! Comments always welcomed.

              Ben and Jarrod
              Last edited by DRUMS01 on Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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              Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

              Post by digger303 »

              Another great one.
              The afv database is good too.
              Have a pint on me... :whistle:
              :th: :th: :th:
              :cheers2:
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              Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

              Post by DRUMS01 »

              Moving forward to Step 21, the main gun assembly which is shown as 6 sub-assemblies.

              Image

              As you can see, the accuracy is excellent and includes a multi-part gun breech, recoil cylinders, M30 and M33 instrument lights, M71D gunners telescopic sight, elevation quadrant, recoil guard, relay, operating crank cam, gun balance weight, and more. I would urge every builder to look and study the instructions carefully as it is not completely clear on the positioning of several parts. Jarrod and I had to research several items and located three web sites that have already been very informative and helpful. We recommend the following web sites to assist you when questioning the positioning of components through your kit build:

              http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/

              https://www.theshermantank.com/about/sh ... k-turrets/

              https://stephentaylorhistorian.com/2018 ... e-and-out/

              Also, Jarrod and I are posting multiple views of the completed Step 21 in case other builders would find them helpful.

              LEFT SIDE (LOADERS VIEW)
              Image

              BOTTOM:
              Image

              RIGHT SIDE (GUNNERS VIEW)
              Image

              TOP:
              Image

              LEFT REAR QUARTER:
              Image

              Another small piece we scratch built was an updated version of the forehead pad for the gunners sight along with the rubber eye ring as shown below:

              Image

              Step 22 will have you finish the remaining components of the main gun assembly; the gun cradle assembly, the turret mounted 30 cal. machine gun, and the main gun assembly from the previous step.

              Image

              Everything fell together easily, and the details continue to impress; did I ever mention that this kit begs for a completed interior? (just kidding). The previous photos included the gun cradle assembly. Jarrod and I have chosen to keep the 30 cal. MG off until the individual assemblies are all painted. In the process of building the MG we also used some after-market parts from SOL Factory Resin to add linked ammo (even though it will not be seen unless we eventually add an interior,.... we know that the detail is there).

              Image

              Image

              Jumping ahead, here is a picture of both the 30 cal and 50 cal MG's in a final assembly:

              Image

              And here is where we conclude for the day, up next will be Step 23. Input and comments are always welcome.

              Ben and Jarrod
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              Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

              Post by digger303 »

              Lovely build and informative as ever. The mg is very nice.
              Thanks for posting the sherman sites I have added them to my ref file.
              :th: :th: :th: :th:
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              Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

              Post by Mpfiend »

              Very nice clean build and well explained with some nice photography.
              Thank you for sharing.
              Regards,
              Keith
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              Re: DRUMS01 1/16 Sherman M4A3E8

              Post by Stokesy44 »

              More good stuff. Cracking on now. I like the after market ammo boxes too. The 0.50 will look great with the ammo showing.
              Its been tried and tested, it works! So don't blame the system if you're no good. :doh:
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