Tarriffs and Modeling ?

[DRUMS01]

Just wondering if anyone has noticed much price changes in the hobby, specifically when dealing with the US?

From what I see, heavy tarriff's on China and Europe for goods coming into the USA will sting and potentially drive this hobby out of reach for some.

Your thoughts?

[Stokesy44]

Just wondering if anyone has noticed much price changes in the hobby, specifically when dealing with the US?

With the orange moron in U.S. office destroying everything we stand, or at least stood for, and forcing price wars on all imports (some over 300%). I can only imagine whats going to happen to ANYTHING we import. From what I see, heavy tarriff's on China and Europe will sting and potentially drive this hobby out of reach for some. And thats only our hobby....

We have not seen anything like what we are seeing now in America EVER, and its not over yet. To my friends in Europe and Ukraine, I am but a humble minion, all I can say is I am so sorry and sick over what is occurring to NATO and our alliances. What is happening now is not what I fought for as a military veteran.

With that said, I hope the craziness going on throughout the world will soon cease and not dampen or destroy our friendships and this hobby. Please remember that only around 50% of Americans voted for what we got, the others did not and are riding this out much like everyone else.

I think that is as close as I could get to politics without going into politics. My apologies if I went too far.

No need to apologise. I have been sickened by what has been coming out of DC on all the issues you have mentioned. At one point I had to stop watching any material to do with the Ukraine situation because it was really starting to effect me. I just dont understand why he has taken the positions he has taken.

And dont get me started on the VP. I was sickened when he referred to us as a country that hasn't fought a war for 30-40 years. Appalling. Nearly every country in Western and central Europe has fought alongside the US in Afghanistan and Iraq in the last 25 years, we all have the grave stones and amputees to prove it.

And as for the trade tariffs, what is he trying to achieve with Canada? They're allies, good neighbors and a great example of what FREE trade can do. Is he trying to destabilize Canada to the point they feel they have to become the 51st state? Its psychotic.

He also doesn't seem to be able to comprehend the harm he's doing to his own economy with these price rises.

Specific to the question over the costs of the hobby, I assume products produced in China will cost more in the US - and there are a lot of manufacturers based in China.

And then there's DOGE. I saw a report yesterday that said DOGE will most likely only be able to save the federal government a tiny fraction of the money that Tesla received in grants and subsidies. Go figure.

[Twokidsnosleep]

Ya. Not gonna be buying much coming from the states as shipping and duties are increasing
Stupid politicians all around

[digger303]

I stopped buying out of the USA many years ago so on the modelling front it won't be a issue for me . I can imagine residents of the US will suffer increased prices.

On a business level I can see machinery prices escalating a lot for us in general and spare parts. Luckily I'm at the end of my work life and only depend on spare parts so the effect will be minimal for me, but the neighbours will have to have a radical rethink a 25% increase is massive on gear costing 1m or more for the bigger places.

[barryf1fan]

No change whatsoever... and, don't agree with the posts that have been made in here in totality.

The very last line of someone's post in here is moronic...

DOGE is an existing "agency" in the fed govt that was just rebranded (ie., renamed), and suddenly everyone is an expert and has a stupid opinion now that it (the agency that was created for in the first place) is actually doing what was intended.

How 'bout reading a little...

[Tomcat64]

Tread carefully in this one please folks.

In any political discussion/debate there will be a wide range of views, so don't be surprised or offended if someone expresses an opinion that doesn't match your own.

Contrary to what we might see in other areas of the internet and other media it is still possible to have a discussion of opposing viewpoints without resorting to schoolyard name-calling or mud-slinging so let's keep it tidy here.

[Stokesy44]

Tread carefully in this one please folks.

In any political discussion/debate there will be a wide range of views, so don't be surprised or offended if someone expresses an opinion that doesn't match your own.

Contrary to what we might see in other areas of the internet and other media it is still possible to have a discussion of opposing viewpoints without resorting to schoolyard name-calling or mud-slinging so let's keep it tidy here.

Fair point

[Kevthemodeller]

Oh this is a dangerous subject.

My two penith. Trump/Musk etc are trying to run the US like a cooperation/business. Trump has always bullied/threatened his business partners especially when taking them over or he wants something. All he and the others are after is money, to them money is the key to everything and it will be coming out of the most of the American's peoples pocket. Anyone with half a brain knows you can't run a country like a business or be leading part of the free world by forcing others to give you what you want at their detriment. Short term, you'll get what you want but at a real cost to you or in this case the US in the long term, will be huge. One very turn thing in life, "what goes around comes around".

I've known and worked with many Americans in serious situations for many years, they can most certainly be trusted.

Something like half or even slightly more don't back or agree with whats happening. We in the UK had something very similar..... Brexit............ Now acknowledged as a mistake/failure, even GB news has stopped doing surveys as they kept getting the wrong answer! It has cost us £bn's and will continue to do so for many years. It was nothing more than a ploy for those who were in power at the time, to deregulate, say no more. Lets hope we do/can live and learn!

[RangerNeil]

Oh this is a dangerous subject.

My two penith. Trump/Musk etc are trying to run the US like a cooperation/business. Trump has always bullied/threatened his business partners especially when taking them over or he wants something. All he and the others are after is money, to them money is the key to everything and it will be coming out of the most of the American's peoples pocket. Anyone with half a brain knows you can't run a country like a business or be leading part of the free world by forcing others to give you what you want at their detriment. Short term, you'll get what you want but at a real cost to you or in this case the US in the long term, will be huge. One very turn thing in life, "what goes around comes around".

I've known and worked with many Americans in serious situations for many years, they can most certainly be trusted.

Something like half or even slightly more don't back or agree with whats happening. We in the UK had something very similar..... Brexit............ Now acknowledged as a mistake/failure, even GB news has stopped doing surveys as they kept getting the wrong answer! It has cost us £bn's and will continue to do so for many years. It was nothing more than a ploy for those who were in power at the time, to deregulate, say no more. Lets hope we do/can live and learn!

As regards Brexit - I'd have to disagree I'm afraid having been on the receiving end EU "Benificence".
Ford of Britain got wiped out by the Germans under EU legislation - the borough of Dagenham was devastated by the loss of income from the Ford assembly plants and massive hike in unemployment. At the time the directors of Ford of Germany had all been card-carrying Nazi's in WW2 and, whatever the public PR persona was, never forgave the UK for its part in ending things. EU legislation - coupled, I'm afraid, with the lack of geographic knowledge in the Dearborn HQ gave them the opportunity for revenge and they took it.
The irony was the year after Dagenham closed Dearborn sent its crack team of bean counters over to find out why B car profits had dropped to zero. They got very upset when they found out the UK was the biggest market for that segment and now every vehicle had to be shipped over 1400 Km on Europes most expensive rail network thus wiping the profit margin. When asked why Dearborn sanctioned the closure of Dagenham they replied "The Ford of Europe management (all German) told us Köln and Dagenham were only a few miles apart". But by then it was too late.
Our unions went to the UK Gov't to protest the closures and the then PM, Blair, told them to go away, their members jobs were the price of EU membership - and more specifically the price for his bid for the EU presidency. Any subsequent failure of Brexit is down to the fact few if any of our politicians wanted that result and have done their damndest to make sure we've never actually got what we voted for.

Sorry if thats a bit of a rant but after all these years its still a sore point with me. Ford of Britains engineering and design teams were the best in the business and, apart from a small design team, they were sacrificed by a bunch of evil old <censored> and corrupt UK politicians that could never have done it without EU legislation.
I can understand why people looking at the glossy surface of the EU can believe membership was a good thing. But dig under that to the dark underbelly and you'll be in for a shock - its a Franco-German led club run by France and Germany for the benefit of France and Germany.

[NoelSmith]

The irony in all this is that the UK and the USA were (and still are) the main bastions of peace in the Cold War era plus beyond and trusted each other implicitly in sharing military intelligence, expertise and weaponry. Generally Britain and the USA share the same core values and could rely on each other without question.
It's a new situation under this Trump administration so will have to see how it goes as I fear looking at the new world order we are seeing the beginnings of a new cold war. China is not the poor peasant country it was 60 or so years ago and the speed at which they built their country into the world's fastest growing manufacturing economy is staggering. A brilliant position to be in taking advantage of the West's buy it cheaper in China attitude, developing their economy and building an incredibly modern infrastructure and quietly becoming the world's second superpower despite Russia's nuclear arsenal. Russia could have become an economic powerhouse if it joined the EU and NATO (yes there was talk about it) after the collapse of communism there in 1992 if it had become a proper democratic western styled economy with its huge resources. What a wasted opportunity for them. The world would certainly be a lot more stable of they had. One thing is for sure, there will be some very rich people who took great advantage of they short big dip in the markets to make a killing. One could be a bit cynical and speculate about that dip however.
Regarding tariffs and modelling, who knows how it will pan out eventually? It will probably settle down some time soon and maybe model kits will get more expensive overall. But do you know, it won't stop models being bought any less. And when you consider how much our obsession is with all the various 'improvement' products we voraciously buy and very often sell on at a loss when interest suddenly gets lost in that project, the market will always keep buoyant.

[DBMiller]

There is another nasty effect to the orangs sh*t gibbon's trade war. The US dollar (my money ) is tanking in the world market. So, not only will prices go up for us in the US because of tariffs, the money used to pay those tariffs is worth less.

[digger303]

There is another nasty effect to the orangs sh*t gibbon's trade war. The US dollar (my money ) is tanking in the world market. So, not only will prices go up for us in the US because of tariffs, the money used to pay those tariffs is worth less.

You are right on the money there and if you look into it a bit deeper you will find this is giving the BRICS nations a free shot. It is really giving sustenance to the drive to undermine the US dollar as stable currency to use as a trade currency. Before everything was denoted in US dollars now increasingly we have contracts being settled in all sorts of different currencies and it is now almost impossible to stop this trend now Trump has proven to be a economic nincompoop, even if he was removed tomorrow trust has been erroded. Trust that was built up from ww1-ww2 and the decades since as the worlds policeman, all gone now.
If you look into utube there is a vid titled how trump got his money and before anyone jumps down my throat pause and have a think if what she says isn't true Trump would have sued her A... off. If you can accept what she says then you have to ask yourself is this why Trump is so friendly to the Russians.

That aside the us dollar issue is a direct strike at the power of the USA and whether it keeps it's top spot in the world economy and how much you pay for overseas goods.
The flip side is it helps manufacturers that supply to the domestic and export markets, Chinese goods will become more expensive and producers who only supply to the export market will benefit the most. Maybe manufacturing will then shift location to Mexico and India and China will have to readjust as a more mature nation.
Our dollar went down too with all this crap happening and it's going to make modelling products more expensive for me, my export price for wheat will stay up I think although China cut it's wheat order by 50%, so I'm wondering if the Russians have supplied cheap wheat in exchange for army personnel,arms or oil. The sanctions imposed by Usa are allowed to be circumvented by countries like China are actually helping China and extending the war only to China's benefit and arms suppliers.

Wow I really had a go there

[Stokesy44]

The latest is now no tariffs for making mobile phones and computers overseas, regardless of country.

I thought the whole point of the tariffs was to force US companies to bring manufacturing back the the US, reducing imports and creating jobs.

Saw a video of a congress hearing where a Trump economic advisor was repeatedly asked why tariffs were being levied against Australia when the USA has a trade surplus with them. The guy wouldn't or couldn't answer. The lunatics have truly taken over the asylum.

Me confused and me not like being confused, too many brain cells dying for nothing

[digger303]

The latest is now no tariffs for making mobile phones and computers overseas, regardless of country.

I thought the whole point of the tariffs was to force US companies to bring manufacturing back the the US, reducing imports and creating jobs.

Saw a video of a congress hearing where a Trump economic advisor was repeatedly asked why tariffs were being levied against Australia when the USA has a trade surplus with them. The guy wouldn't or couldn't answer. The lunatics have truly taken over the asylum.

Me confused and me not like being confused, too many brain cells dying for nothing

That's the rhetoric bring jobs home, except it makes even less sense than it did 50 yrs ago. Globalisation has made every country rely on another for goods and services, no country goes it alone now.
Manufacturers chase lowest cost of inputs and Japan used to be the place of cheap imports and then it was china. It's a merry go round and economies have to transition and find a niche. Half of the UK is based around the financial sector and centuries ago they went through a large manufacturing phase all tariffs do is postpone the inevitable, but they can't roll back time.

I think all the guys running USA government now are a exclusive billionaires club and decisions are based on what's best for them and they don't listen to the experts.

They obviously don't do much in-depth research taxing penguins and countries they have a trade surplus with and didn't think about the huge trade in US arms that's just evaporated. There's more to running country than just chasing headlines.

It does my head in

[Twokidsnosleep]

I got dinged a surprise $40 on a shipment from Italy for paint
“Import Duty and/or Tax and Customs Clearance Service Charges”
This is the kind of BS I am hoping Canada and Europe can negotiate to get more free trade amongst allies.

[digger303]

I got dinged a surprise $40 on a shipment from Italy for paint
“Import Duty and/or Tax and Customs Clearance Service Charges”
This is the kind of BS I am hoping Canada and Europe can negotiate to get more free trade amongst allies.

Wow that is a lot, did Canada ever give a reason or what's the motivation behind those charges when they were first introduced ( just curious ).
No such charges here atm.

[Twokidsnosleep]

I got dinged a surprise $40 on a shipment from Italy for paint
“Import Duty and/or Tax and Customs Clearance Service Charges”
This is the kind of BS I am hoping Canada and Europe can negotiate to get more free trade amongst allies.

Wow that is a lot, did Canada ever give a reason or what's the motivation behind those charges when they were first introduced ( just curious ).
No such charges here atm.

Customs brokerage fees
Import taxation/duty
It is just more BS for the government to collect $
Was not part of the shipping calculation at purchase either, so a bit miffed

[Stokesy44]

I assume all this current nonsense will hit kit prices, if you live in the US, with so may manufacturers being based where they are.

[digger303]

I assume all this current nonsense will hit kit prices, if you live in the US, with so may manufacturers being based where they are.

It's a another reason I can use to justify having a stash....

[Stokesy44]

I assume all this current nonsense will hit kit prices, if you live in the US, with so may manufacturers being based where they are.

It's a another reason I can use to justify having a stash....

[DRUMS01]

THE FOLLOWING IS AN OPINION, AND ONLY AN OPINION; AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT OPINIONS ARE LIKE....

(Read with a large dose of sarcasm)

So what I see being said is, those modelers with a sizable model stash can build from within to avoid purchasing newer models at higher prices? They should be able to live with the mold quality, seams, flash, poor fit, and less accurate kits of yesteryear, right? After all, this is just a hobby! I'm sure the politicians everywhere think we can bare the burden of a world economy under attack, right? After all, if eggs and toilet paper can instantly go up over 400%, then who are we to think are modeling hobby is safe? Let me see, so the $50 armor kit I look at yesterday will soon be over $200 at that rate, ..... no biggie.

And let's also remember how this is going to effect modeling manufacturers as well. If this surreal tarif war continues, eventually the increased costs to maintain profitable operations will reduce the number of new models being released as well as prices. Fewer models, smaller market, higher operational and distribution costs, equals higher prices everywhere. After all, if the manufacturers cannot make a profit in some parts of the world (think USA), then it will indeed impact the remaining world market too. But wait, there is a silver lining in all of this!

Perhaps, just perhaps, all those "older" model kits in circulation or stashes will go up in price?

And another silver lining; those millionaires and billionaires, who were informed through insider trading, were able to buy large sums of market shares at lower prices during the tarif rollercoaster making them millions and billions more; all the while those working class people who lost a significant part of their IRA's may never recover. That's the way its suppose to work, right?

Yup, thank heavens for those staches! But why do I still feel like I'm watching Rome burn in modern times?

(ok, sarcasm is over now)

[Stokesy44]

THE FOLLOWING IS AN OPINION, AND ONLY AN OPINION; AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT OPINIONS ARE LIKE....

(Read with a large dose of sarcasm)

So what I see being said is, those modelers with a sizable model stash can build from within to avoid purchasing newer models at higher prices? They should be able to live with the mold quality, seams, flash, poor fit, and less accurate kits of yesteryear, right? After all, this is just a hobby! I'm sure the politicians everywhere think we can bare the burden of a world economy under attack, right? After all, if eggs and toilet paper can instantly go up over 400%, then who are we to think are modeling hobby is safe? Let me see, so the $50 armor kit I look at yesterday will soon be over $200 at that rate, ..... no biggie.

And let's also remember how this is going to effect modeling manufacturers as well. If this surreal tarif war continues, eventually the increased costs to maintain profitable operations will reduce the number of new models being released as well as prices. Fewer models, smaller market, higher operational and distribution costs, equals higher prices everywhere. After all, if the manufacturers cannot make a profit in some parts of the world (think USA), then it will indeed impact the remaining world market too. But wait, there is a silver lining in all of this!

Perhaps, just perhaps, all those "older" model kits in circulation or stashes will go up in price?

And another silver lining; those millionaires and billionaires, who were informed through insider trading, were able to buy large sums of market shares at lower prices during the tarif rollercoaster making them millions and billions more; all the while those working class people who lost a significant part of their IRA's may never recover. That's the way its suppose to work, right?

Yup, thank heavens for those staches! But why do I still feel like I'm watching Rome burn in modern times?

(ok, sarcasm is over now)

A cautionary tale indeed.

I have thought about the insider trading question myself, it seems there is no check on what is going on here when he tweets that its a good time to buy stock before officially announcing a role back of the tariffs. Where the f*** is the SEC?

I have a small stash but they are all kits that have been released within the last 8 years or so. I bought them as new tooled kits unless I picked them up at model shows, even then they were, to me, modern releases such as a stunning Dragon Tiger II that had all the goodies in the box for £25. I'll chance my arm on some old (ish) Tamiya armor but that's it.

The reason for this is I just don't like building poor quality kits (by that I mean old kits). Its not my bag and I have nothing but respect for guys who build old kits and make great jobs of them. The talent on show on the forum testifies to that.

I get emails from an online store every Sunday and one of the emails covers future releases. I love that email because it regularly adds to my wish list. ICM 1/48 B26 Marauder and 1/48 Blackhawk helicopter are good examples of recent additions. Kits of these aircraft are available but the thought of a new tool ICM kit blows them out of the water for me.

And yes, I'm aware of the irony that ICM are from Ukraine.

So its very likely my target purchases will be going up as most of the modern manufacturers out there are on the naught list.

I may have mentioned this before but I'm still laughing at the interview I saw where a US Congressman was interviewing a Trump economic advisor and asking him to say why tariffs were being levied against Australia when the US has a trade SURPLUS with them. The guy couldn't reply, all he managed to say was we're trying to reduce the deficit. Hilarious.

And then there's the penguins.....

[digger303]

THE FOLLOWING IS AN OPINION, AND ONLY AN OPINION; AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT OPINIONS ARE LIKE....

(Read with a large dose of sarcasm)

So what I see being said is, those modelers with a sizable model stash can build from within to avoid purchasing newer models at higher prices? They should be able to live with the mold quality, seams, flash, poor fit, and less accurate kits of yesteryear, right? After all, this is just a hobby!

Yup, thank heavens for those stashes! But why do I still feel like I'm watching Rome burn in modern times?

(ok, sarcasm is over now)

A cautionary tale indeed.

I have thought about the insider trading question myself, it seems there is no check on what is going on here when he tweets that its a good time to buy stock before officially announcing a role back of the tariffs. Where the f*** is the SEC?

I have a small stash but they are all kits that have been released within the last 8 years or so. I bought them as new tooled kits unless I picked them up at model shows, even then they were, to me, modern releases such as a stunning Dragon Tiger II that had all the goodies in the box for £25. I'll chance my arm on some old (ish) Tamiya armor but that's it.

The reason for this is I just don't like building poor quality kits (by that I mean old kits). Its not my bag and I have nothing but respect for guys who build old kits and make great jobs of them. The talent on show on the forum testifies to that.

I get emails from an online store every Sunday and one of the emails covers future releases. I love that email because it regularly adds to my wish list. ICM 1/48 B26 Marauder and 1/48 Blackhawk helicopter are good examples of recent additions. Kits of these aircraft are available but the thought of a new tool ICM kit blows them out of the water for me.

And yes, I'm aware of the irony that ICM are from Ukraine.

So its very likely my target purchases will be going up as most of the modern manufacturers out there are on the naught list.

I may have mentioned this before but I'm still laughing at the interview I saw where a US Congressman was interviewing a Trump economic advisor and asking him to say why tariffs were being levied against Australia when the US has a trade SURPLUS with them. The guy couldn't reply, all he managed to say was we're trying to reduce the deficit. Hilarious.

And then there's the penguins.....

Over the years I've tried to stay away from crappy kits so I don't have many. I have many kits which are ( 2004- 2024 ) old now, but still stand up pretty well and their value has indeed crept up enough now so that I'd most likely break even or close to in a sale situation. Not why I bought them, but I'm happy that I did. The decaying decals are a problem no doubt and I can always get little updates to improve kits if needed most of the time.In fact there are many kits sold today that are just being reboxed and the original tooling is old, unless you get a kit from a newer company then that is likely to be much sharper but they don't offer every subject either.
Point is I don't have to buy and can weather this period of instability and from the hobby perspective it is like being backed by the old gold standard.

I would like to get a 3d printer set up which is not a cheap purchase. Of course all this comes from China along with the resin so I'm not keen to see prices of any modelling product rise. The reason why China is advancing so rapidly apart from stealing a lot of tech is they invested very heavily into the engineering and research sectors far above any other country in the world.

China is courting Australia a bit atm trying to get us to back them against USA and our PM is walking a very skinny tight rope. I do think we should back out of this nuclear sub purchase with USA, we can't afford it, we can't maintain them and have no nuclear industry to back them up.

I think we should continue to back Ukraine.

Trump seems to forget every time he says the Ukrainian war wouldn't have started if he was president and that he was President and he sent over 5000 Javelins to help them in his first term.

[RangerNeil]

<snipped>.

China is courting Australia a bit atm trying to get us to back them against USA and our PM is walking a very skinny tight rope. I do think we should back out of this nuclear sub purchase with USA, we can't afford it, we can't maintain them and have no nuclear industry to back them up.

</snipped>

Apologies from deviating from the thread topic
I believe you are actually buying the hulls (well - the hull design as they are being built in Australia - and the reactors from the UK. Weapons and electronics from the USA. So you'll be building the nuclear industry as you build the boats. The actual hull (Trafalgar class) is the predecessor to the current Astute class used by the RN. The current class of Diesel-Electric boats used by the Australian navy are over 40 years old, well past their sell-by date which carries a doubly whamny:
* They cost more and more each year to keep running to the point some have been cannibalised to keep the rest running.
* They present a risk to the crews as, when new they were hard to detect but detection gear has improved drastically. The class of hull - Trafalgar - used to give the USN headaches on exercise as they could become holes in the water so should be as good, if not better against the Chinese. And the crew complements are smaller. The original required a compliment of 130 but the design being built in Oz will have state of the art systems meaning the complement will be about 90. They can also operate for up to 90 days (officially) without surfacing.
Basically if the Australian navy wants to operate a fleet of blue water submarines you need to replace the old and noisy D-E boats with nuclear. The AUSUKUS deal is a lot cheaper than buying boats "off the shelf" from France.

[digger303]

<snipped>.

China is courting Australia a bit atm trying to get us to back them against USA and our PM is walking a very skinny tight rope. I do think we should back out of this nuclear sub purchase with USA, we can't afford it, we can't maintain them and have no nuclear industry to back them up.

</snipped>

Apologies from deviating from the thread topic
I believe you are actually buying the hulls (well - the hull design as they are being built in Australia - and the reactors from the UK. Weapons and electronics from the USA. So you'll be building the nuclear industry as you build the boats. The actual hull (Trafalgar class) is the predecessor to the current Astute class used by the RN. The current class of Diesel-Electric boats used by the Australian navy are over 40 years old, well past their sell-by date which carries a doubly whamny:
* They cost more and more each year to keep running to the point some have been cannibalised to keep the rest running.
* They present a risk to the crews as, when new they were hard to detect but detection gear has improved drastically. The class of hull - Trafalgar - used to give the USN headaches on exercise as they could become holes in the water so should be as good, if not better against the Chinese. And the crew complements are smaller. The original required a compliment of 130 but the design being built in Oz will have state of the art systems meaning the complement will be about 90. They can also operate for up to 90 days (officially) without surfacing.
Basically if the Australian navy wants to operate a fleet of blue water submarines you need to replace the old and noisy D-E boats with nuclear. The AUSUKUS deal is a lot cheaper than buying boats "off the shelf" from France.

No doubt about it our boats are old and we can't maintain them and need replacing.
We won't be able to maintain new Nuclear boats either. The plan was to train crews in the US and send them back to the US for constant updates and sub maintenance to be done in the US as well. We won't have a proper nuclear industry here unless we also build nuclear power plants for civil use. Canada has already warned us that this is not a a cheap path to follow and once you do, it isn't easy to change course.
Then as recent history unfolds do we want to be so dependant on the US ?

[RangerNeil]

<snipped>.

China is courting Australia a bit atm trying to get us to back them against USA and our PM is walking a very skinny tight rope. I do think we should back out of this nuclear sub purchase with USA, we can't afford it, we can't maintain them and have no nuclear industry to back them up.

</snipped>

Apologies from deviating from the thread topic
I believe you are actually buying the hulls (well - the hull design as they are being built in Australia - and the reactors from the UK. Weapons and electronics from the USA. So you'll be building the nuclear industry as you build the boats. The actual hull (Trafalgar class) is the predecessor to the current Astute class used by the RN. The current class of Diesel-Electric boats used by the Australian navy are over 40 years old, well past their sell-by date which carries a doubly whamny:
* They cost more and more each year to keep running to the point some have been cannibalised to keep the rest running.
* They present a risk to the crews as, when new they were hard to detect but detection gear has improved drastically. The class of hull - Trafalgar - used to give the USN headaches on exercise as they could become holes in the water so should be as good, if not better against the Chinese. And the crew complements are smaller. The original required a compliment of 130 but the design being built in Oz will have state of the art systems meaning the complement will be about 90. They can also operate for up to 90 days (officially) without surfacing.
Basically if the Australian navy wants to operate a fleet of blue water submarines you need to replace the old and noisy D-E boats with nuclear. The AUSUKUS deal is a lot cheaper than buying boats "off the shelf" from France.

No doubt about it our boats are old and we can't maintain them and need replacing.
We won't be able to maintain new Nuclear boats either. The plan was to train crews in the US and send them back to the US for constant updates and sub maintenance to be done in the US as well. We won't have a proper nuclear industry here unless we also build nuclear power plants for civil use. Canada has already warned us that this is not a a cheap path to follow and once you do, it isn't easy to change course.
Then as recent history unfolds do we want to be so dependant on the US ?

Not sure you actually need a nuclear industry - the reactors being supplied by the UK are Fuelled-for-Life SMR's (Small.Modular Reactors. Basically it goes into the hull and lasts - I'm not sure if its the life of the ship.or 10 years. Either way the old reactor is returned to RR for decommisioning and a new one fitted. Either way the old reactor is returned to RR for decommissioning.
If the Australian Navy is anything like the Royal Navy then the training manuals will get rewritten into understandable English and training will occur in-house

[digger303]

Apologies from deviating from the thread topic
I believe you are actually buying the hulls (well - the hull design as they are being built in Australia - and the reactors from the UK. Weapons and electronics from the USA. So you'll be building the nuclear industry as you build the boats. The actual hull (Trafalgar class) is the predecessor to the current Astute class used by the RN. The current class of Diesel-Electric boats used by the Australian navy are over 40 years old, well past their sell-by date which carries a doubly whamny:
* They cost more and more each year to keep running to the point some have been cannibalised to keep the rest running.
* They present a risk to the crews as, when new they were hard to detect but detection gear has improved drastically. The class of hull - Trafalgar - used to give the USN headaches on exercise as they could become holes in the water so should be as good, if not better against the Chinese. And the crew complements are smaller. The original required a compliment of 130 but the design being built in Oz will have state of the art systems meaning the complement will be about 90. They can also operate for up to 90 days (officially) without surfacing.
Basically if the Australian navy wants to operate a fleet of blue water submarines you need to replace the old and noisy D-E boats with nuclear. The AUSUKUS deal is a lot cheaper than buying boats "off the shelf" from France.

No doubt about it our boats are old and we can't maintain them and need replacing.
We won't be able to maintain new Nuclear boats either. The plan was to train crews in the US and send them back to the US for constant updates and sub maintenance to be done in the US as well. We won't have a proper nuclear industry here unless we also build nuclear power plants for civil use. Canada has already warned us that this is not a a cheap path to follow and once you do, it isn't easy to change course.
Then as recent history unfolds do we want to be so dependant on the US ?

Not sure you actually need a nuclear industry - the reactors being supplied by the UK are Fuelled-for-Life SMR's (Small.Modular Reactors. Basically it goes into the hull and lasts - I'm not sure if its the life of the ship.or 10 years. Either way the old reactor is returned to RR for decommisioning and a new one fitted. Either way the old reactor is returned to RR for decommissioning.
If the Australian Navy is anything like the Royal Navy then the training manuals will get rewritten into understandable English and training will occur in-house

I don't know anything about the components going into the subs or where they were going to sourced from.
The official talk here was the crew would need to be rotated back and forwards to the Usa for the length of their service at least once a year and to train a crew up was going to take years.

[Stokesy44]

I know we've deviated from the topic a bit but this stuff being posted by Ranger and Digger is fascinating. Good to hear from people who know what they're talking about and care about the subject

Another reason to love the forum.

Keep it up people, your forum needs you

[digger303]

Heading back a little towards tarriffs I see the Hong Kong post office is refusing to collect tarriffs on behalf of the US government on small packets and is refusing to send that type of mail to the US....the worlds a little crazy.

Here's the official words.

"HONG KONG, April 16 (Reuters) - Hongkong Post said on Wednesday it had suspended mail services for goods sent by sea to the United States, accusing the U.S. of "bullying" after Washington cancelled tariff-free trade provisions for packages from China and Hong Kong."

[RangerNeil]

<snipped>

I don't know anything about the components going into the subs or where they were going to sourced from.
The official talk here was the crew would need to be rotated back and forwards to the Usa for the length of their service at least once a year and to train a crew up was going to take years.

The deal was widely discussed in the veteran communities over here due to the implications for the British defence industries. The two points you mention were discussed in depth by former submariners and the view held by all was the crews are already trained submariners so the training needed is mainly just cross-conversion (the analogy used was a pilot moving from a C-130 to an Airbus 320). The only training from scratch would be those working in the reactor space - and those are British. Part of the deal - apparently - was that RR would set up a training school at your submarine base. Systems conversion would be the only reason to go to the USA and that would be a one-off. Mostly in a simulator because the USN doesn't have that class of sub. It maybe part of the deal that the US will also provide simulators and your first crews will fo on to become your instructors.

[digger303]

<snipped>

I don't know anything about the components going into the subs or where they were going to sourced from.
The official talk here was the crew would need to be rotated back and forwards to the Usa for the length of their service at least once a year and to train a crew up was going to take years.

The deal was widely discussed in the veteran communities over here due to the implications for the British defence industries. The two points you mention were discussed in depth by former submariners and the view held by all was the crews are already trained submariners so the training needed is mainly just cross-conversion (the analogy used was a pilot moving from a C-130 to an Airbus 320). The only training from scratch would be those working in the reactor space - and those are British. Part of the deal - apparently - was that RR would set up a training school at your submarine base. Systems conversion would be the only reason to go to the USA and that would be a one-off. Mostly in a simulator because the USN doesn't have that class of sub. It maybe part of the deal that the US will also provide simulators and your first crews will fo on to become your instructors.

Ok.

[NoelSmith]

How did this thread about tariffs affecting model kit prices morph into a discussion about nuclear submarines for the Australian Navy ????

Can we get this thread back on track please guys.

[digger303]

Another bad flow on problem for US customers and Hobbylink.

Dear Customer,

We are writing to let you know about a planned suspension of several US shipping methods, in light of the recent changes to US shipping regulations.

Due to recent changes in international shipping regulations for the United States including the recently announced tariffs, we will temporarily stop offering several shipping methods to the US. This includes services from FedEx, DHL, and some Japan Post options (Surface and Airmail), as well as our HLJ Quick Pack and HLJ Small Pack services. Only EMS shipping will remain available for shipments to the US.

[Stokesy44]

Another bad flow on problem for US customers and Hobbylink.

Dear Customer,

We are writing to let you know about a planned suspension of several US shipping methods, in light of the recent changes to US shipping regulations.

Due to recent changes in international shipping regulations for the United States including the recently announced tariffs, we will temporarily stop offering several shipping methods to the US. This includes services from FedEx, DHL, and some Japan Post options (Surface and Airmail), as well as our HLJ Quick Pack and HLJ Small Pack services. Only EMS shipping will remain available for shipments to the US.

I am yet to hear from any recognised economist that this whole thing is not an unmitigated financial disaster.

[digger303]

Another bad flow on problem for US customers and Hobbylink.

Dear Customer,

We are writing to let you know about a planned suspension of several US shipping methods, in light of the recent changes to US shipping regulations.

Due to recent changes in international shipping regulations for the United States including the recently announced tariffs, we will temporarily stop offering several shipping methods to the US. This includes services from FedEx, DHL, and some Japan Post options (Surface and Airmail), as well as our HLJ Quick Pack and HLJ Small Pack services. Only EMS shipping will remain available for shipments to the US.

I am yet to hear from any recognised economist that this whole thing is not an unmitigated financial disaster.

I have yet to hear from outside the US admin that it's a good idea even within the US and I've only heard one person say Trump is the greatest president the US ever has had other than that orange fellow

[DRUMS01]

Just a tag onto digger and Stokesy's remarks; If your in the USA and looking to purchase from the Asia or European markets, the kit prices have only increased slightly. The problem is that shipping went from "free" to $55 - $400 for the same kits simply because of the tariffs and post / customs increases. In many cases the shipping far exceeds the costs of the kits.

[RangerNeil]

Got me worried at the moment - the guy who produces all the 1/8 Trans Am parts is US based and no ones sure how the tariffs will affect his pricing.....

[Twokidsnosleep]

A warning to keep this civil as this topic may go off the rails easily
I am cool so far with everything
Play nice

[digger303]

Got me worried at the moment - the guy who produces all the 1/8 Trans Am parts is US based and no ones sure how the tariffs will affect his pricing.....

Smuggling across the border is about to take on a whole different dimension ( US TO Canada )

[Quax]

If you think I’m putting a kit in any orifice to smuggle it in, you’ve got another think coming!!

Paul

[digger303]

If you think I’m putting a kit in any orifice to smuggle it in, you’ve got another think coming!!

Paul

KY is amazing stuff

[Garion77]

Got me worried at the moment - the guy who produces all the 1/8 Trans Am parts is US based and no ones sure how the tariffs will affect his pricing.....

Smuggling across the border is about to take on a whole different dimension ( US TO Canada )

well for now no.... As you know, I go quite often to the US (almost every month)and actually, with how prices of almost everything in the US went up since COVID, most of the things are the same price when take the exchange rate in consideration. Food at the supermarket is even lower lots of time here, restaurant meals are the same price are even higher, clothing is the same, electronics also. Just the gas is cheaper. So I think with all the other countries putting up tariffs on their side, most of the products I've mentioned will become even higher prices.

It's the US citizen who should come here to smuggle things back take advantage of the US dollar while the rate is still good for them.

[Stokesy44]

It will probably all change any day now with the next tweet or off the cuff remark from the White House.

[NoelSmith]

I am half expecting things to get reverted back somewhat quite rapidly.
Especially when MAGA citizens find that either they cannot get regularly bought items or stuff they normally buy in WalMart et al prices going through the roof !
Big retailers will no doubt pile on some pressure !
Market forces ETC ETC ????

[digger303]

You won't like to be seen as making a wrong decision or a stupid one so if a wind back does occur and I think it will. It will be done in a staged manner or if it can be spun as him making a deal and covering himself in glory it will be quick like you say.

[Twokidsnosleep]

Hope my investments go shooting back up to where they were in January
The fall if the markets was like a a lead balloon dropping

[NoelSmith]

The way the World is headed right now tariffs will be the least of our concerns.

Things are shaping up just as before WW2. The USA now threatening to go it alone and back out of NATO, European politicians dithering and in disarray about bolstering defence. The EUROPEAN UNION starting to become even more fragmented. The UN will become as much use as the League of Nations was.

Defence procurement is a joke. So many nations doing their own thing with regard to designing and making military hardware. The USA is big enough to do its own thing, but smaller nations have little or no compatibility with equipment. Russia being on a war footing keeps churning out military hardware despite heavy equipment losses in the Ukraine, so where will it all end? A number of European nations have supplied F16's to the Ukraine, but with no mention of them being replaced. Has the US not got quite a number of F16 fighter aircraft mothballed in the Nevada desert somewhere. A quick job to get back into the air and replace those European nations aircraft? After all they have pilots already familiar with the F16. It's not a 5th generation aircraft, but desperately needed by NATO partners in Europe to bolster air defence capability in these unsure times.