New release announced by Kotare

[RangerNeil]

If anyones interested Kotare have just announced a new product in their range:
A Mk1 Hurricane.
Options will include 2 and 3 bladed props tall and short tailfins, armoured and armoured windscreens, ring & bead and reflector gun sights.
No prices yet.

[digger303]

If anyones interested Kotare have just announced a new product in their range:
A Mk1 Hurricane.
Options will include 2 and 3 bladed props tall and short tailfins, armoured and armoured windscreens, ring & bead and reflector gun sights.
No prices yet.

I don't think my Revell will like standing next to Kotare
I ain't trading it though...

[Stokesy44]

There's a wallet shaped hole in my lounge wall after I saw this. My wallet knew what was coming and decided it was time to leave!

Art work from Kotare. Fabric covered wings and early style gun panels. I think this will be the first of quite a few Hurricanes from them, maybe even a Sea Hurricane too.

[RangerNeil]

There's a wallet shaped hole in my lounge wall after I saw this. My wallet knew what was coming and decided it was time to leave!

Art work from Kotare. Fabric covered wings and early style gun panels. I think this will be the first of quite a few Hurricanes from them, maybe even a Sea Hurricane too.

I suspect you may well be right!!

[NoelSmith]

Nice kit.

Subject wise they are playing it a bit safe as one might very well understand.

I'm guessing that their next model might be either a Messerschmidt ME109 or a P51D Mustang?

[Stokesy44]

Nice kit.

Subject wise they are playing it a bit safe as one might very well understand.

I'm guessing that their next model might be either a Messerschmidt ME109 or a P51D Mustang?

You would guess correct sir, they have already announced an Me 109 K-4, prior to the Hurricane release

[digger303]

Nice kit.

Subject wise they are playing it a bit safe as one might very well understand.

I'm guessing that their next model might be either a Messerschmidt ME109 or a P51D Mustang?

Yes playing it safe will be the watch word for a year or two I suspect. I don't think they will venture back to WW1 for a while.

[RangerNeil]

Nice kit.

Subject wise they are playing it a bit safe as one might very well understand.

I'm guessing that their next model might be either a Messerschmidt ME109 or a P51D Mustang?

I suspect an Fw-190 of some kind may make an appearance in the relatively near future as well as a P51. They seem to be concentrating on the more famous fighters for now.

[digger303]

Nice kit.

Subject wise they are playing it a bit safe as one might very well understand.

I'm guessing that their next model might be either a Messerschmidt ME109 or a P51D Mustang?

I suspect an Fw-190 of some kind may make an appearance in the relatively near future as well as a P51. They seem to be concentrating on the more famous fighters for now.

Yeah I don't think the Pacific theatre or a Russian plane will figure in the plan.
You might see them squeeze in markings for a NZ plane when they can.

[Stokesy44]

Nice kit.

Subject wise they are playing it a bit safe as one might very well understand.

I'm guessing that their next model might be either a Messerschmidt ME109 or a P51D Mustang?

I suspect an Fw-190 of some kind may make an appearance in the relatively near future as well as a P51. They seem to be concentrating on the more famous fighters for now.

Yeah I don't think the Pacific theatre or a Russian plane will figure in the plan.
You might see them squeeze in markings for a NZ plane when they can.

They are a small and new company, they would be looking for releases they know will sell. To be honest I'm surprised at the Hurricane release. I would have thought a US aircraft would have followed the 109. I would love to see a Tempest or a Thunderbolt but they are too 'left field' for Kotare I would imagine.

One thing I would say about the 109 and Hurricane, they have not been covered in 1/32 by a real quality outfit like Tamiya, that might factor into their reasoning too.

[NoelSmith]

Kotare I believe consists of ex Wingnut Wings people.

So I can understand and see their rationale bringing out 'safe' subjects for the foreseeable future by making what is referred to in the trade as 'bankers' going for the more appealing WW2 aircraft subjects such as Me109, P51 Mustang, FW190 to name a few.

The Wingnuts kits being larger scale WW1 aircraft was in too much of a niche market to chase. Due to the subject matter (although fabulous kits) in the long term what they were doing just became unsustainable.

[Stokesy44]

Kotare I believe consists of ex Wingnut Wings people.

So I can understand and see their rationale bringing out 'safe' subjects for the foreseeable future by making what is referred to in the trade as 'bankers' going for the more appealing WW2 aircraft subjects such as Me109, P51 Mustang, FW190 to name a few.

The Wingnuts kits being larger scale WW1 aircraft was in too much of a niche market to chase. Due to the subject matter (although fabulous kits) in the long term what they were doing just became unsustainable.

Agree on all points

[digger303]

Kotare I believe consists of ex Wingnut Wings people.

So I can understand and see their rationale bringing out 'safe' subjects for the foreseeable future by making what is referred to in the trade as 'bankers' going for the more appealing WW2 aircraft subjects such as Me109, P51 Mustang, FW190 to name a few.

The Wingnuts kits being larger scale WW1 aircraft was in too much of a niche market to chase. Due to the subject matter (although fabulous kits) in the long term what they were doing just became unsustainable.

Agree on all points

Be nice to get those old WNW molds back into production though. Lots of willing buyers out there including me, just not at 300 a pop though.

[NoelSmith]

Provided the moulds still exist since WNW's demise there is that possibility.
But the main question is 'Who would want the risk to take it on?'.
Given that the large scale WW1 aircraft kit market was limited, it would need a big player like Revell for example to take the moulds on and use them for occasional release, limited to every few years or so.
Somehow I cannot see it happening for the foreseeable future. The lots of willing buyers out there may not be as many as you imagine Digger, even at more sensible prices.

[digger303]

Provided the moulds still exist since WNW's demise there is that possibility.
But the main question is 'Who would want the risk to take it on?'.
Given that the large scale WW1 aircraft kit market was limited, it would need a big player like Revell for example to take the moulds on and use them for occasional release, limited to every few years or so.
Somehow I cannot see it happening for the foreseeable future. The lots of willing buyers out there may not be as many as you imagine Digger, even at more sensible prices.

Maybe not, but the molds are the most expensive part of getting a kit to market. All the research, design and actually producing the molds is done.

[Stokesy44]

Provided the moulds still exist since WNW's demise there is that possibility.
But the main question is 'Who would want the risk to take it on?'.
Given that the large scale WW1 aircraft kit market was limited, it would need a big player like Revell for example to take the moulds on and use them for occasional release, limited to every few years or so.
Somehow I cannot see it happening for the foreseeable future. The lots of willing buyers out there may not be as many as you imagine Digger, even at more sensible prices.

Maybe not, but the molds are the most expensive part of getting a kit to market. All the research, design and actually producing the molds is done.

I do wander if there's a problem with 'ownership' of the molds. There were rumors of litigation surrounding the molds for the 1/32 Lancaster when Border Models was working on the kit for release. The Kotare team are ex WNW and they have gone in a different direction from WW1 kits. Maybe there's a clue in that.

At the end of the day its a shame that such quality kits are not on the shelves anymore.

[digger303]

Provided the moulds still exist since WNW's demise there is that possibility.
But the main question is 'Who would want the risk to take it on?'.
Given that the large scale WW1 aircraft kit market was limited, it would need a big player like Revell for example to take the moulds on and use them for occasional release, limited to every few years or so.
Somehow I cannot see it happening for the foreseeable future. The lots of willing buyers out there may not be as many as you imagine Digger, even at more sensible prices.

Maybe not, but the molds are the most expensive part of getting a kit to market. All the research, design and actually producing the molds is done.

I do wander if there's a problem with 'ownership' of the molds. There were rumors of litigation surrounding the molds for the 1/32 Lancaster when Border Models was working on the kit for release. The Kotare team are ex WNW and they have gone in a different direction from WW1 kits. Maybe there's a clue in that.

At the end of the day its a shame that such quality kits are not on the shelves anymore.

All true and as you say a real shame as a modeller almost a crime.

[NoelSmith]

The Lancaster moulds are probably a different litigation issue altogether from when WNW went bust.
The WW1 aircraft moulds would have been seized by the liquidator, so so knows what will happen ? The liquidator would be naturally looking to sell the moulds on to recoup as much money as possible from the WNW bankruptcy.
Agreed the kits are superb but as I have mentioned before they were catering for a very niche market, and the reality is that once the initial enthusiast market became exhausted the cash flow problems started. And thereby this is where the problem lies with selling the moulds on. What company would want to take the risk of shelling out a considerable amount of money for kit moulds for a very limited market that has already been saturated? From a business point of view it would be taking on a highly risky venture.

[RangerNeil]

The Lancaster moulds are probably a different litigation issue altogether from when WNW went bust.
The WW1 aircraft moulds would have been seized by the liquidator, so so knows what will happen ? The liquidator would be naturally looking to sell the moulds on to recoup as much money as possible from the WNW bankruptcy.
Agreed the kits are superb but as I have mentioned before they were catering for a very niche market, and the reality is that once the initial enthusiast market became exhausted the cash flow problems started. And thereby this is where the problem lies with selling the moulds on. What company would want to take the risk of shelling out a considerable amount of money for kit moulds for a very limited market that has already been saturated? From a business point of view it would be taking on a highly risky venture.

I suppose it all depends on how much the moulds were sold for! It seems as a rule liquidators work on a "pennies for a pound" basis so a prospective buyer only had the purchase price to recoup. Offering the kit in a limited run, reasonable price basis would do that easily. If you look how much WnW kits go for on eBay now - and people are buying them - that would be an effective financial model.
For example kit #32074 - Sopwith Camel is currently on offer for £182.74. A limited run of, say, 200 kits priced at £80 would net £16,000. Repeat that every couple of years and the profits add up.

[NoelSmith]

It will be interesting to see what eventually happens Neil.
I'm not desperate enough to shell out 182 quid for a WW1 kit though !
Could buy a top of the range air brush for that sort of money. Better investment for me.

[Stokesy44]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I wonder how the company would have faired had they produced the same quality kits but over a broader range, say including WW2 and maybe even some jets.

A combination of cost and subject matter kept me away from WNW but if they had produced stuff more in my wheelhouse then who knows.

Like I said, hindsight.....

[NoelSmith]

Agreed Stokesy
They might have done OK with safer subjects as their core range at the outset that is exactly what the ex WNW folk who formed Kotare are now doing.
I believe that the film producer Peter Jackson put a lot of funds into WNW initially. Not sure if he fully or partly owned the company. Maybe he was a WW1 aircraft enthusiast modeller and it might have been an ambition of his to make high quality aircraft kits from that era.

[Stokesy44]

Hannants have announced the arrival of the Kotare 1/32 Me 109. It looks like Kotare are repeating the same mistakes as WNW with their pricing. The kit is £100. To me, that is way too steep for a single engine WW2 fighter that doesnt even come with an engine. Now I know its heralded for its accuracy and engineering but so is Tamiya's Spitfire and that comes with a beautiful engine for the same price. Its also one of the best put together kits ever released.

In comparison, Hannants also have a 1/32 Tempest V with a whole host of added resin including ammo bays, ammo trays, weighted tyres and cockpit upgrades for £54. Its a stunning kit and I'm seriously considering buying it.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it......

[digger303]

Hannants have announced the arrival of the Kotare 1/32 Me 109. It looks like Kotare are repeating the same mistakes as WNW with their pricing. The kit is £100. To me, that is way too steep for a single engine WW2 fighter that doesnt even come with an engine. Now I know its heralded for its accuracy and engineering but so is Tamiya's Spitfire and that comes with a beautiful engine for the same price. Its also one of the best put together kits ever released.

In comparison, Hannants also have a 1/32 Tempest V with a whole host of added resin including ammo bays, ammo trays, weighted tyres and cockpit upgrades for £54. Its a stunning kit and I'm seriously considering buying it.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it......

Is that the special hobby hi-tech kit ?
https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/SH32 ... oken=Phst0

Tamiya is about the only one you can draw a comparsion with isn't it ? I mean for the level of detail and ease of build and for a guide we can buy the Tamiya kit in the different boxings for 190 -210aud at BNA with Kotare at the same level. Do you think the marketing dept simply used Tamiya as the right level despite not having a engine ?
I do tend to agree with you not knowing anything about this cheaper kit. Love to see you build it as I think it would be very useful for us all.


Ps...as another guide I can buy a Tamiya Mk.XVIe posted for 126 or the Mk.IXc for 10 aud less. So yeah Kotare is cashing in on the old rep.
In Japan that is.

[Stokesy44]

Hannants have announced the arrival of the Kotare 1/32 Me 109. It looks like Kotare are repeating the same mistakes as WNW with their pricing. The kit is £100. To me, that is way too steep for a single engine WW2 fighter that doesnt even come with an engine. Now I know its heralded for its accuracy and engineering but so is Tamiya's Spitfire and that comes with a beautiful engine for the same price. Its also one of the best put together kits ever released.

In comparison, Hannants also have a 1/32 Tempest V with a whole host of added resin including ammo bays, ammo trays, weighted tyres and cockpit upgrades for £54. Its a stunning kit and I'm seriously considering buying it.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it......

Is that the special hobby hi-tech kit ?
https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/SH32 ... oken=Phst0

Tamiya is about the only one you can draw a comparsion with isn't it ? I mean for the level of detail and ease of build and for a guide we can buy the Tamiya kit in the different boxings for 190 -210aud at BNA with Kotare at the same level. Do you think the marketing dept simply used Tamiya as the right level despite not having a engine ?
I do tend to agree with you not knowing anything about this cheaper kit. Love to see you build it as I think it would be very useful for us all.


Ps...as another guide I can buy a Tamiya Mk.XVIe posted for 126 or the Mk.IXc for 10 aud less. So yeah Kotare is cashing in on the old rep.

Yes, thats the Special Hobby kit.

I'm very tempted to buy it and its payday on Friday!

[digger303]

Hannants have announced the arrival of the Kotare 1/32 Me 109. It looks like Kotare are repeating the same mistakes as WNW with their pricing. The kit is £100. To me, that is way too steep for a single engine WW2 fighter that doesnt even come with an engine. Now I know its heralded for its accuracy and engineering but so is Tamiya's Spitfire and that comes with a beautiful engine for the same price. Its also one of the best put together kits ever released.

In comparison, Hannants also have a 1/32 Tempest V with a whole host of added resin including ammo bays, ammo trays, weighted tyres and cockpit upgrades for £54. Its a stunning kit and I'm seriously considering buying it.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it......

Is that the special hobby hi-tech kit ?
https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/SH32 ... oken=Phst0

Tamiya is about the only one you can draw a comparsion with isn't it ? I mean for the level of detail and ease of build and for a guide we can buy the Tamiya kit in the different boxings for 190 -210aud at BNA with Kotare at the same level. Do you think the marketing dept simply used Tamiya as the right level despite not having a engine ?
I do tend to agree with you not knowing anything about this cheaper kit. Love to see you build it as I think it would be very useful for us all.


Ps...as another guide I can buy a Tamiya Mk.XVIe posted for 126 or the Mk.IXc for 10 aud less. So yeah Kotare is cashing in on the old rep.

Yes, thats the Special Hobby kit.

I'm very tempted to buy it and its payday on Friday!

Just to clear up my previous post the cheap Tamiya kits were in Japan.

[NoelSmith]

Looks like those ex Wing Nut Wings employees are playing it safe with what subjects they are bringing to market, so more power to their elbow.
A sensible approach from Kotare appealing to a broader market subject wise.
WNW kits were renowned for their quality so no argument there. It was their subject choice that I believe was their problem. Large scale World War 1 aircraft alone was too much of a niche market to sustain after the initial purchases by WW1 aircraft enthusiast modellers.

[RangerNeil]

Seems a forthcoming release from Korare isn't going to be US or Russian - but British - and big. A Halifax!! Markings to include RCAF, RAAF and RNZAF machines as well as Coastal Command and RAF.

[digger303]

Looks like those ex Wing Nut Wings employees are playing it safe with what subjects they are bringing to market, so more power to their elbow.
A sensible approach from Kotare appealing to a broader market subject wise.
WNW kits were renowned for their quality so no argument there. It was their subject choice that I believe was their problem. Large scale World War 1 aircraft alone was too much of a niche market to sustain after the initial purchases by WW1 aircraft enthusiast modellers.

A sad state of affairs, it could be the enthusiast ww1 builder who wants the those ww1 kits might have to resort to STL files.

[Stokesy44]

Seems a forthcoming release from Korare isn't going to be US or Russian - but British - and big. A Halifax!! Markings to include RCAF, RAAF and RNZAF machines as well as Coastal Command and RAF.

I think there's a way you can follow and be involved in the development of the kit. Kotare are breaking new ground with their customer base.

[Stokesy44]

Looks like those ex Wing Nut Wings employees are playing it safe with what subjects they are bringing to market, so more power to their elbow.
A sensible approach from Kotare appealing to a broader market subject wise.
WNW kits were renowned for their quality so no argument there. It was their subject choice that I believe was their problem. Large scale World War 1 aircraft alone was too much of a niche market to sustain after the initial purchases by WW1 aircraft enthusiast modellers.

A sad state of affairs, it could be the enthusiast ww1 builder who wants the those ww1 kits might have to resort to STL files.

They targeted a market that wasn't there. They only lasted as long as they did due to outside funding so there was no way back when that was pulled. Its a shame and I wonder if a smaller more targeted range would have been more popular, they could have reduced prices due to economies of scale and made it a viable business. At least some of the employees got going again with Kotare.

[RangerNeil]

Seems a forthcoming release from Korare isn't going to be US or Russian - but British - and big. A Halifax!! Markings to include RCAF, RAAF and RNZAF machines as well as Coastal Command and RAF.

I think there's a way you can follow and be involved in the development of the kit. Kotare are breaking new ground with their customer base.

Yes, if you contact Kotare and register interest in the kit you get added to the discussion groups - currently e-mail, Facebook and Britmodeller.. They are looking at a Discord group too if theres enough interest. Being a mug for the new and unusual I registered interest - hence how I knew what the marking options currently are. At the moment the main discussions are on how much detail to include in the interior and whether to incle detailed engines as per the BM Lancaster.

Looks like those ex Wing Nut Wings employees are playing it safe with what subjects they are bringing to market, so more power to their elbow.
A sensible approach from Kotare appealing to a broader market subject wise.
WNW kits were renowned for their quality so no argument there. It was their subject choice that I believe was their problem. Large scale World War 1 aircraft alone was too much of a niche market to sustain after the initial purchases by WW1 aircraft enthusiast modellers.

A sad state of affairs, it could be the enthusiast ww1 builder who wants the those ww1 kits might have to resort to STL files.

They targeted a market that wasn't there. They only lasted as long as they did due to outside funding so there was no way back when that was pulled. Its a shame and I wonder if a smaller more targeted range would have been more popular, they could have reduced prices due to economies of scale and made it a viable business. At least some of the employees got going again with Kotare.

Wasn't the targetting down to the companys owner, film director Peter Jackson's (LoTR, Hobbit fame) personal interest in such machines? I seem to recall when WnW was shut down during Covid there was a substantial outcry that he'd treated people's livelihoods as though part of a throwaway hobby.

[Twokidsnosleep]

Seems a forthcoming release from Korare isn't going to be US or Russian - but British - and big. A Halifax!! Markings to include RCAF, RAAF and RNZAF machines as well as Coastal Command and RAF.

I think there's a way you can follow and be involved in the development of the kit. Kotare are breaking new ground with their customer base.

Yes, if you contact Kotare and register interest in the kit you get added to the discussion groups - currently e-mail, Facebook and Britmodeller.. They are looking at a Discord group too if theres enough interest. Being a mug for the new and unusual I registered interest - hence how I knew what the marking options currently are. At the moment the main discussions are on how much detail to include in the interior and whether to incle detailed engines as per the BM Lancaster.

A sad state of affairs, it could be the enthusiast ww1 builder who wants the those ww1 kits might have to resort to STL files.

They targeted a market that wasn't there. They only lasted as long as they did due to outside funding so there was no way back when that was pulled. Its a shame and I wonder if a smaller more targeted range would have been more popular, they could have reduced prices due to economies of scale and made it a viable business. At least some of the employees got going again with Kotare.

Wasn't the targetting down to the companys owner, film director Peter Jackson's (LoTR, Hobbit fame) personal interest in such machines? I seem to recall when WnW was shut down during Covid there was a substantial outcry that he'd treated people's livelihoods as though part of a throwaway hobby.

Oh ya there was some shady stuff behind the scenes. Someone selling Jackson's real WWI planes behind his back, poor money management of the company
Lawsuits and investigations
Then PJ just pulled the plug on the model company suddenly
The market and the sales were strong otherwise, just he didn't keep on top of things