Tamiya 1/35 Cheiftain Mk5

[RangerNeil]

Next up on the build list is some armour -Tamiya's Chieftain Mk 5. But - me being the insane fool that I happily admit to being we aren't going for the usual Green or Green/Black finish normally associated with Chieftains.

Oh no - we are going full fruit bat mode and hoping to finish up with something like this:



For those unfamiliar with it this is BAOR's Berlin Brigade scheme. Designed to blend the vehicle in with a background of buildings. And for the double whammy every vehicle in a group was painted identically so that Soviet observers could never be sure how many of that vehicle were on strength.
Ahh, I hear you say, all those wicked Soviets had to do was read the reg plates. But the deviousness of the British Army mind had already recognized this issue and over came it by a means so devious it fooled the Russians. And the French. And the Americans. This dastardly trick was.. <cue drum roll> they swapped the reg plates around.

Most we ever had on station was 18 Chieftains. Intel intercepts at the time told that the Russians thought we had 50. The French thought it was 30, the USA thought it was 36....

So - onto the kit...
The instructions
















The Sprues












The Decals


Won't be using many of the decals and already I'm thinking a set of metal tracks may replace those plastic aberrations.

[digger303]

I like that camo too and it's kind of funny that even your allies didn't know how many tanks there were.

[Stokesy44]

Nice subject, all the more relevant now too.

[Garion77]

Oh boy ! that's a truly crazy paint job ! I'll follow for sure !

[Kevthemodeller]

This will be interesting

[runnerUA]

following, right on! Not the same old camo works for me

[RangerNeil]

I like that camo too and it's kind of funny that even your allies didn't know how many tanks there were.

You have to understand the mindset of BAOR back in the 80's Not only were we probably the fittest alcoholics at that time but also (despite the best efforts of the Ruperts) bored. So putting one over on the allies was viewed as harmless fun.
Slightly less harmless was sitting on the border tossing branches over the fences to trip the motion sensors to see how many times the Grenztruppen would clear them before getting irritated - and then what they would do when irritated....

And welcome to the madhouse everyone thats going to follow along.

Anyways back to the kit - I just noticed that Tamiya have cocked up on the reg plates!! They've got the spacing wrong, its not 2 groups of three (04E B35) it should be 3 goups of 2 (04 EB 35) so I'm going to have to give some thought on how to fix this. In the meantime parts are getting a squirt of IPA to clean them prior to priming

[digger303]

I like that camo too and it's kind of funny that even your allies didn't know how many tanks there were.

You have to understand the mindset of BAOR back in the 80's Not only were we probably the fittest alcoholics at that time but also (despite the best efforts of the Ruperts) bored. So putting one over on the allies was viewed as harmless fun.
Slightly less harmless was sitting on the border tossing branches over the fences to trip the motion sensors to see how many times the Grenztruppen would clear them before getting irritated - and then what they would do when irritated....

And welcome to the madhouse everyone thats going to follow along.

Anyways back to the kit - I just noticed that Tamiya have cocked up on the reg plates!! They've got the spacing wrong, its not 2 groups of three (04E B35) it should be 3 goups of 2 (04 EB 35) so I'm going to have to give some thought on how to fix this. In the meantime parts are getting a squirt of IPA to clean them prior to priming

Love the little back stories.
However your plate problem maybe solved if you can get a decal set from the Takom kits. They have spares so if someone else has some left overs your in luck. If that doesn't work I could rob my kit you you.

[RangerNeil]

<snipped>
Love the little back stories.
However your plate problem maybe solved if you can get a decal set from the Takom kits. They have spares so if someone else has some left overs your in luck. If that doesn't work I could rob my kit you you.

Cheers Digger - I'll investigate that route.

Meantime on the build - a bit of research reveal that the wheels, lower hull and supension units remained in NATO Green as did the engine decking (being horizontal ther was no point in giving it the treatment) so thats been done.


Next step is some assembly work and then the assembled parts will get an all over matt white as the base coat.

[digger303]

[RangerNeil]

Road wheel assembly in progress...
Set on the left is complete and ready to go on the lower hull,other two pairs are waiting for paint to dry. This must be a very old Tamiya release as there are a LOTof very fine seam lines to be cleared off most parts as well as minute amounts of flash.

[Stokesy44]

Good progress. Looking forward to seeing how you do the camo!

[RangerNeil]

Lower hull is now complete - at least all the parts that will be NATO Green!! Have to admit to a wee cock-up - I forgot to put the polybushes into the drive sprockets so I had to get them apart again. Luckily I'd used TET to join them so another application of that "persuaded" them to come apart so the polybushes could be added. Oops!!!!

The rear panel is complete too - but this is going to be the base White of the Berlin scheme so will be painted off the vehicle first then fitted to have the disruptive patterns added

[digger303]

[RangerNeil]

Upper hull was completed today, the gun barrel and breech are made up and setting overnight as both were slightly warped (I get the feeling this is a very old Tamiya kit...).
Getting ready to assemble the turret - because this was originally a motorised kit looking through the turret hatches would have shown the inner mess. So I've blanked off the turret base with a piece of plastic sheet. Thank the lord for a Dspiae circle cutter!!
Once the turret is done it will be spray everything white time.

[DRUMS01]

This is a piece of armor that I do not have in my stash, but will some day.

I took a photo of one at last years model contest. I'm attaching it for motivation as it looks like what you're reaching for...



I'm watching closely to see how you do it which may motivate me to get one sooner than later.

[RangerNeil]

This is a piece of armor that I do not have in my stash, but will some day.

I took a photo of one at last years model contest. I'm attaching it for motivation as it looks like what you're reaching for...



I'm watching closely to see how you do it which may motivate me to get one sooner than later.

Excellent - thank you!! Thats the look I'm aiming for.

[digger303]

This is a piece of armor that I do not have in my stash, but will some day.

I took a photo of one at last years model contest. I'm attaching it for motivation as it looks like what you're reaching for...



I'm watching closely to see how you do it which may motivate me to get one sooner than later.

Excellent - thank you!! Thats the look I'm aiming for.

Maybe one of these as the Airfix and Tamiya are 30-40yrs old.

[RangerNeil]

Looks like Imgur isn't playing ball either. VPN set to either the USA or Australia - and I still get the message "Imgur refused to connect".

[digger303]

Looks like Imgur isn't playing ball either. VPN set to either the USA or Australia - and I still get the message "Imgur refused to connect".

Sorry to all you Uk residents ....It's a pic of the Takom kit.

[RangerNeil]

I think there is enough white on now to suffice so the upper and lower hulls are joined.










The turret is completed




But I made a mistake earlier - part E22 should have been fitted inside the turret before I sealed the bottom up. Now it looks like I am going to have to cut that cover plate off - or have a gaping hole....


The paint set I got that matches fhe Berlin Brigade colours is by a firm called "Scale 75" - so far I've used the White - and I'm not impressed. Bottle says its ready to brush or airbrush, its neither. Comes put of the bottle- even after prolonged time in a paint shaker - like gel. I tried thinning with IPA and the best I can describe the result was it all went gritty. Tried water - 3 drops wasn't enough for a dollop the size of a pea, 4 was too much. I couldn't find a happy medium for the airbrush so I wound up using a hairy stick. Obviously I'm doing something wrong but I cannot use an airbrush with it.

[digger303]

Bit of a average result for a established brand name.
Is the paint new ?

[RangerNeil]

Bit of a average result for a established brand name.
Is the paint new ?

Yep - new.

[RangerNeil]

OK - overlays are going on. The red/brown looks OK but the instructions with the paint say to use Panzer Grey as he second overlay - and I don't think it looks right, far too dark and too Grey.
Pics on the web suggest a lighter more Blue/Grey.

I'd be interested to hear the collectives thoughts on this before I do anymore.
The clamp is therebecause for some reason the front of the big stowage box lifted off the deck so its clampeddown with TET applied.

[digger303]

Yes too dark by far.






If Facebook doesn't load, google Chieftain/ digital camo and the tank museum site will be listed. Has a lovely pic.

[RangerNeil]

Found a lighter grey in the colour set that looks better:




Another coat of both and then the dividing line marker gets moved down the side skirts to do the upper section.
Next problem is the turret - the Mk 5 has a slightly different profile to the Mk 10 so getting the patterns right is proving to be a wee bit tricky....

[digger303]

Don't want to rain on your parade, but its still looking really dark

[RangerNeil]

Might have to shelve this for the time being then as I don't have anything thats a lighter hard grey and cash is in short supply at the moment.

[RangerNeil]

OK - 3rd time lucky - I hope. I used the Hobby Color app to "sample" the grey in the Tank museum photo and it it gave me a few options - one of which was USAF Low Visibility Grey by Hataka - and I had it in the Vietnam set....




Look very closely and there are a few small areas of bleed under the tape that will need sorting once all is done.
The lower halves of the skirts are now done. Once the paint is thoroughly dry the central tape stripe gets moved down and I can start on the upper halves and hull.
Turret is almost done, got a couple of Grey areas to mask off that butt up to the Brown and that will be it

[digger303]

That looks a better grey.

[RangerNeil]

Nearly there. Just got the final grey to go on once the Brown has dried - then its tidy up time.
Turret is done apart from tidy up and the barrel needs finishing and permanently attaching.
Hull








Turret

[digger303]

Getting there

[RangerNeil]

So - moving into the final stages now. The hull is finished paint-wise, just needs a bogey replaced once that tool box has set, turret is finished - just putting the finishing touches to the gun barrel then its a coat of gloss ready for decalling.

[digger303]

[RangerNeil]

The tracks are done. I used the plastic things that came in the kit as funds are beyond tight right now so I couldn't opt for the usual metal upgrade. With some paint they didn't turn out tooo badly though.
First they were thoroughly scrubbed in warm soapy water rinsed under running cold water then scrubbed with IPA and allowed to dry. After this a coat of Ultimate Grey primer was sprayed all over and left to dry. Then a couple of coats of Tamiya XF84 "Dark Iron" was applied by brush


Once that had dried the RMP's (Resilient Material Pads) were given a couple of coats of Tamiya XF85 "Rubber Black".


Again once that had dried the ends were joined first using super glue then by heating amd melting the pins.






When the pins had cooled down they were fitted to the vehicle. Not as easy as it sounds as both drive sprockets decided to come off the hull and had to be put back. This time using superglue. This time they went on OK.




Next job is a coat of Gloss clearcoat ready for the decals......

[digger303]

Looking good as usual.
The tracks do look well adjusted
The track return rollers, did they have a rubber tyre ?

[RangerNeil]

Looking good as usual.
The tracks do look well adjusted
The track return rollers, did they have a rubber tyre ?

Thanks Digger. As far as I can tell from photos on the web the returns were all steel.
I'm calling this one done now. If anyones thinking of doing this scheme in the future my advice would be make sure you are well stocked in 1mm, 6mm and 10mm masking tape!!










Oh - and I had a play with ChatGPT to see what AI could make of things.....

[digger303]

Shall take that on board.
Well done getting all that camo done.
It's not bad for a 1967 tooled kit, very credible which is testament to how Tamiya built their reputation.

[RangerNeil]

Shall take that on board.
Well done getting all that camo done.
It's not bad for a 1967 tooled kit, very credible which is testament to how Tamiya built their reputation.

Thanks Digger!!
I've done a bit more noseing into this AI business - seems tbere are two free contenders (at the time of writing) - ChatGPT and Grok.
I've tried both using this photo:


With the request:
"Place the object of the photo in a 1970's Berlin Street scaled to suit the background."

This is what ChatGPT came up with:


And this is what Grok came up with


What looks best?

[digger303]

Never heard of GROK before, but I'm not always up with everything.
I think GROK result looks more toy like while ChatGPT has straightened lines and generally tweaked the image to make it fit into the enviroment better.

[RangerNeil]

Never heard of GROK before, but I'm not always up with everything.
I think GROK result looks more toy like while ChatGPT has straightened lines and generally tweaked the image to make it fit into the enviroment better.

Yeah, thats my thoughts also. The ChatGPT app has muted the white to blend in whereas the Grok app has just planted the original image on the background. Maybe the Grok app required additional input telling it to blend the original whereas the ChatGPT one is more intuitive.
It's an area for much play I think.

[Stokesy44]

Shall take that on board.
Well done getting all that camo done.
It's not bad for a 1967 tooled kit, very credible which is testament to how Tamiya built their reputation.

Great longevity too. They've managed to find a price niche that customers like for the quality of kits they're getting.

[Stokesy44]

Looks great with the decals on. Its amazing how just a few decals, even on a tank, can add so much character to a build.

[Tomcat64]

This thread has been on my "to read" list for a while and I'm glad I finally got the time to read through it properly... probably just coincidence that my boss is on holiday for a few days, right?

Really enjoyed reading through this, especially the intel snippets early on - I had no idea that the BAOR swapped plates

Awesome work sorting the camo scheme out & if it makes you feel any better than I've found Scale75 paints to be really hit & miss too.

Great job - looks right at home in the Berlin environment

[Stokesy44]

From the trials with finding the right colors and the paint bleeds that camo has turned out a pretty spectacular result.

I read somewhere that if it had all kicked off back in the 70s / 80s, then these tip of the sword units were not expected to last very long but damn, they would have looked mighty fine holding their ground. And I mean that with all respect.

[RangerNeil]

From the trials with finding the right colors and the paint bleeds that camo has turned out a pretty spectacular result.

I read somewhere that if it had all kicked off back in the 70s / 80s, then these tip of the sword units were not expected to last very long but damn, they would have looked mighty fine holding their ground. And I mean that with all respect.

Back then it was expected a Soviet thrust would come through the North and South of Germany. Berlin and the obvious urban fighting would not have figured highly in the Red Armys battleplans - they preferred the broad canvas approach where massed armour, artillery, infantry and air power could be punched through NATO's defence lines. NATO front line units had a life expectancy of around 24 hours - much less at point of contact. Red Army worked in millions, NATO in hundred of thousands. Berlin forces - probably - would have lasted 72 hours, maybe longer

[Stokesy44]

From the trials with finding the right colors and the paint bleeds that camo has turned out a pretty spectacular result.

I read somewhere that if it had all kicked off back in the 70s / 80s, then these tip of the sword units were not expected to last very long but damn, they would have looked mighty fine holding their ground. And I mean that with all respect.

Back then it was expected a Soviet thrust would come through the North and South of Germany. Berlin and the obvious urban fighting would not have figured highly in the Red Armys battleplans - they preferred the broad cancas approach where massed armour, artillery, infantry and air power could be punched through NATO's defence lines. NATO front line units had a life expectancy of around 24 hours - much less at point of contact. Red Army worked in millions, NATO in hundred of thousands. Berlin forces - probably - would have lasted 72 hours, maybe longer

I dont know about you but it makes me shiver. Even thinking in abstract, because it didnt happen, its scary.

I read Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising about a 1980s conventional war in Europe and the North Altlantic after the Sovs attacked following a significant loss to their oil industry. Absolutely brilliant book.

[RangerNeil]

From the trials with finding the right colors and the paint bleeds that camo has turned out a pretty spectacular result.

I read somewhere that if it had all kicked off back in the 70s / 80s, then these tip of the sword units were not expected to last very long but damn, they would have looked mighty fine holding their ground. And I mean that with all respect.

Back then it was expected a Soviet thrust would come through the North and South of Germany. Berlin and the obvious urban fighting would not have figured highly in the Red Armys battleplans - they preferred the broad cancas approach where massed armour, artillery, infantry and air power could be punched through NATO's defence lines. NATO front line units had a life expectancy of around 24 hours - much less at point of contact. Red Army worked in millions, NATO in hundred of thousands. Berlin forces - probably - would have lasted 72 hours, maybe longer

I dont know about you but it makes me shiver. Even thinking in abstract, because it didnt happen, its scary.

I read Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising about a 1980s conventional war in Europe and the North Altlantic after the Sovs attacked following a significant loss to their oil industry. Absolutely brilliant book.

Gives me nightmares to this day 'cos I would have been there. My unit would have deployed as soon as tensions rose, dug-in to hides just in case and waited. If tensions eased we were recalled, if they broke we sat, let the soviets over-run us then reported in Soviet movements in the immediate rear. When that passed on we were to come out of hiding to wreak havoc on supply lines, command staff, TEL's etc Life expectancy at that point was 72 hours max - the GRU and KGB took a dim view of that sort of things

[Stokesy44]

Gives me nightmares to this day 'cos I would have been there. My unit would have deployed as soon as tensions rose, dug-in to hides just in case and waited. If tensions eased we were recalled, if they broke we sat, let the soviets over-run us then reported in Soviet movements in the immediate rear. When that passed on we were to come out of hiding to wreak havoc on supply lines, command staff, TEL's etc Life expectancy at that point was 72 hours max - the GRU and KGB took a dim view of that sort of things

Fascinating stuff. I bet you react to cold war books and films with a very different view to mine.

Without sounding like an American, let me just say, thank you for your service.