Italeri M10 Achilles Groub Build

[Gav0909]

So I have changed my mind as to what I am entering into the group build. I started working on the Ju87 and frankly I am not feeling it, I started rescribing, and lack of proper tools means I am not doing a great job and so its getting shelved for now. Plus I was itching to build this kit really!

So I am going to now build Italeri's 1/35 M10 Achilles Self Propelled Gun. I will also be using Miniarts 1/35 British Tank Crew to go with it.

To start with then, for those who perhaps don't know, this is what an M10 Achilles looks like.


The History

The 17 pounder, Self-Propelled, Achilles was a British variant of the American M10 Tank destroyer armed with the powerful British Ordnance QF 17 pounder anti-tank gun in place of the standard 3" (76.2 mm) Gun M7. With a total of 1,100 M10s converted, the 17 pdr SP Achilles was the second most numerous armoured fighting vehicle to see service armed with the 17 pounder gun, behind the Sherman Firefly.
The name "Achilles" was officially a designation applied to both the 3" gun and 17 pounder versions (as Achilles I/II and Achilles Ic/IIc respectively) but was little used during the Second World War; at the time, the vehicle was called 17pdr M10, or 17pdr SP M10, or even occasionally, "Firefly". It has since become identified almost exclusively with the 17 pounder version.
The 17 pdr SP Achilles was basically a modified M10, the main difference being the gun. The main armament of the Achilles was the Ordnance QF 17 pounder, a gun with greatly superior anti-tank performance over the standard American 3" anti-tank gun. The single top mounted M2 Browning HMG was retained.
The 17 pounder mounted on the Achilles was able to penetrate some 140 mm of armour at 500 m (550 yd) and 131 mm at 1,000 m (1,100 yd) using standard Armour Piercing, Capped, Ballistic Capped (APCBC) ammunition impacting at a 30-degree angle. When supplied, Armour-piercing discarding sabot (APDS) ammunition could penetrate some 209 mm (8 inches) of armour at 500 metres and 192 mm at 1,000 metres at a 30-degree angle. In comparison the 3-inch (76 mm) gun on the standard M10 using the same type of ammunition (APCBC) would penetrate 98 mm of armour at 500 m at a 30-degree angle, and 88 mm of armor at 1,000 meters at a 30-degree angle. Only with High Velocity Armour Piercing (HVAP) ammunition did the 3-inch (76 mm) gun compare with the 17 pounder, the ammunition being able to penetrate 140 mm at 500 m at a 30-degree angle, and 127 mm at 1,000 m at a 30-degree angle. However HVAP ammunition was in very short supply and it only just compared with the standard 17 pounder ammunition that was available in huge amounts for the British.
The only other change carried out on the Achilles was the addition of 17 mm (0.67 in) thick armour plates welded to the front and sides of the M10 to increase armour protection, as well as a 20 mm thick shield fitted to the top of the turret to provide protection from overhead threats that resulted from the M10 having an open top turret.*
*Information taken from Wikipedia.

The Kit

For this build I am using Italeri's reboxing of the Academy 1/35 M10 Achilles. I will also be using Miniarts 1/35 British Tank Crew.


Sprues are all moulded crisply with no flash in nice hard plastic.





Instructions give painting options for 4 vehicles, two Polish and two British. Decals are of good quality.


I did a review of the Miniart figures, which can be seen here

[youtube]FbpmZ-SnWJU[/youtube]

As for what scheme I am going to do mine in, it will be British for sure, and probably the 11th Armoured one, as I like the black bull logo better than the Guards logo!

In terms of modelling I vaguely intend to put it on a diorama base as if the vehicle has been defending a position for some time (not uncommon as the British used their M10s as mobile AT guns, rather than part of armoured formations like the Americans did). To that end I have also bought a set of brass turned 17 pdr ammo. This comes with complete rounds and spent casings. The idea being that the crew are now at rest, taking stock etc, but there is loose ammo at the ready and a number of spent rounds lying around, suggesting they have just been in action for a while. I will try to grime the crew up a bit, and perhaps add some small arms dings to the tank to suggest a fight.

Ideas are welcome, as are any comments of support, or critiscms.

[Paul]

Nice, look forward to seeing this come together. :thumb:

[Lee]

Nice Gav

[bullgill67]

good luck with your build

michael

[BrummieModeller]

Looks a nice kit gav, i'll look forward to seeing this build

[Tiger131]

looking good ive built them figures they go together really well..looking forward to seeing your build come along

[Bagpiper]

Nice looking model. Looking forward to seeing this build.

Cheers
Jim

[Gav0909]

Update 1

Thanks for all the comments so far.

So here is update no. 1 for this build. Tonight I have been working on the running gear for the M10. Some will know, but for those who don't the M10 shares the same running gear as the Sherman. So it comprises a front drive sprocket, 3 sets of double wheel bogies, and a steel idler wheel at the rear. I have the option to use "early" style open spoke road wheels, sprocket and idler wheel, or "late" style closed ones. I went with the open ones, for two main reasons. First, they look better in my opinion and second the road wheels were one piece compared to the two piece late style ones!

Here are some pictures of tonights progress. I have 3 bogies made up, with just 3 to go and the running gear is complete.

First parts going on the lower hull


Number of parts per bogie (you can see the moulded on serial numbers on the bogie parts, nice detail!)


Small assembly line on the go!


Completed bogies


Lower hull with idlers and drive sprockets


Small video showing that the roadwheels turn and the suspension is movable, will make getting a realistic "sit" on a diorama in the future easier. (Click the picture to view the video).


Any comments, questions etc are most appreciated. I am really enjoying this build so far, glad I swapped models!

Cheers

[BrummieModeller]

Them bogies look so much easyer to build than the ones i've had to build *huff* lol

[schweinhund227]

Good luck with it !!! Not enough of those are being build ! Take care !

[Gav0909]

Cheers guys.

Well no more progress just yet as I was back in Fife over the weekend, had family things to attend too. So I hope to get back to this tonight, and possibly force myself to work on the next set of bogies, as once they are done that it for the running gear, bar installing the tracks later on.

[Gav0909]

Update 2

So no modelling over the weekend as mentioned above, but I got some work done last night on the M10.

I have built the remaining three bogies, I just need to sand the filler back and add the track guide bits. I think I will at least prime all the bogies separate from the hull, to ensure full coverage, I might then paint them before gluing them on as well, might make painting the rubber tyres easier too.

I test fitted the bogies, drive sprocket, idler wheel and track on one side.


I built up the rear floor section, this forms the floor of the fighting compartment.


I built up the rear hull plate with the exhausts


I installed the rear plate, and the fuel tanks on the lower hull


Test fitting the front floor with the drivers compartment, and the rear floor.


And I got my turned brass ammunition in the post this morning. These are gorgeous!


There are three each of the HE, APDS, and whatever the other AP round is! lol. The rounds are separate to the casing, so I will probably end up with quite a few empty casings lying around to show the action the vehicle has been in. I was going to stick some of the rounds in the "ready racks" on the rear of the turret, but the kit part has the rounds moulded to the rack. So I might look into scratching a rack for one side at least so I can add some of the different, brass rounds in.

Oh, does anyone have any idea how to weather the emtpy casing to make them look tarnished? Once the round has been fired the casing, especially around the hole will be tarnished/sooty etc from the heat. I might try just holding the end in a lighter flame for a bit and see if that gives a good effect.

Your comments are most welcome.

Cheers

[BrummieModeller]

Coming together nicely now love to brass ammo looks mint!!

[Paul]

Get the shells wet and leave them outside for a week or so.

[Nige201980]

Wow those rounds look so cool. Build looks great as well Gav

[chief5437]

I love those brass shells! I've got this kit on the go, I must've spent about a week detailing and weathering the drivers compartment, when I popped the upper hull and turret on..... You can barely see down there!!! Ha! At least I know it's there anyway

Where did you get the brass from? I think I might splash out on some for my M-10.

Looking forward to seeing your progress

Cheers

[Gav0909]

Cheers guys.

Chief I got them from a seller on ebay, just search for 17 pdr brass shells.

In other news I bought an RB models brass barrel for this, and aerial base set.

[Paul]

Cheers guys.

Chief I got them from a seller on ebay, just search for 17 pdr brass shells.

In other news I bought an RB models brass barrel for this, and aerial base set.

Sweet nice extras

[chief5437]

Cheers guys.

Chief I got them from a seller on ebay, just search for 17 pdr brass shells.

In other news I bought an RB models brass barrel for this, and aerial base set.

Thanks dude!

[Gav0909]

So expect an update later this evening folks. I got some more work done last night on the main hull hatches, and more work will continue this evening on the upper hull detailing. I think I am almost ready to be able to stick a coat of primer down on the interior sub assemblies and within a few days I should be able to spray them white and start detailing/weathering that up. I will stick up any reference pics I can find of the interiors of M10's so you can get an idea of the kind of look I am going for. But I am thinking, worn plating on the floor, ammo racks, high use areas. General dirt and grime, and some oil staining.

[Coen]

Are you planning any external stowage?
I always liked seeing the M-10s, Hellcats and Jacksons with piles of junk stowed all over them.
The guys that ran these things really lived in them.
There's tonnes of pictures out there where you can hardly see the TD because of all the crap hanging off them.

[Gav0909]

Yeah I think I will add some stowage, the kit comes with some spare track, road wheels and jerry cans. I will probably try to make some tarps etc. I would buy some resin stowage (god knows there is enough AM sets for M10s out there) but I don't really want to spend any more money on bits for this kit now.

[Coen]

I think that the kit stuff with a couple of tarps would do perfectly.
If you're feeling energetic, crates and the like you can make yourself out of popsicle sticks or those little wooden boxes that strawberries come in (if you can get them).

[Gav0909]

Yeah I will add what I can. I kind of want to make a small diorama base for the kit as well, probably some kind of hedgerow with the M10 sitting near it, as if its been holding the position for a while, so empty shells on the floor etc, and possibly a shelter up against the vehicle, might look cool.

[Gav0909]

Update 3

So here is tonights progress.

Started getting the ice cleat racks on the sides


Main hatches done, these will be posed open I think on the final build


Upper hull is pretty much complete now, tools have been added to the back, fuel/oil tank caps, lights and guards and travel rest.




I think I am going to thin the front fenders out a bit with my dremel, and then bend them slightly to give a used look to them, they were just sheet metal so I feel that any large clods of dirt, sticks, rubble etc that would move past there with the track movement would probably dent and bend the fenders quite easily.

I also stuck the end of one of the brass shell casings into a candle for a bit, and its sooted it up nicely. So I think I will do this with all the spent rounds to make them look used.

Here is the weathered one next to an unweathered one


Comments and criticsm is welcome. Next job will either be to prime the bogies etc just to see what shade of green works best, or to carry on with the build, which the next stages are building up the gun breech etc and other inner workings of the turret.

Thanks

[Lee]

Some one's been beavering away

Nie work so far Gav

[Paul]

Nice work from the caped (well curtained) crusader

[Coen]

I actually didn't think that the candle idea that you had for the shells would work. I thought that the brass was overscale shiny.
Wrongo!
They turned out just fine. Sometimes it's cool to be wrong, but only if you learn something. I just did.
I imagine that the sooty finish left by the candle is pretty delicate though?

[Gav0909]

Coen, yeah the sotty finish does rub off very easily. So I will either do the same on the other shells just before I then place them on the vehicle, meaning I don't have to touch them again, or I could try the same effect but with black pigments instead.

[UKscalemodeller]

Could you not just hold the soot of with a varnish? it looks really good.

[Gav0909]

Yes Ian I guess varnish would also hold the weathering in place. Doing the soot by an actual flame does give a much more realistic effect than perhaps using pigments etc.

[BrummieModeller]

looking good gav

[Gav0909]

So I am thinking a bit about the painting/weathering etc that I am going to use on this build.

The base colour will of course just be standard British Olive Drab, which is a bit lighter than the Dark Green the Yanks painted their vehicles. Markings wise, I will be using what comes with the kit, so I have the choice of either the Guards Armoured Division, or 11th Armoured, think I will go for that, as the Guards Armoured tended to paint the black "Mickey Mouse" camo on their vehicles, and I think that looks daft!

M10 Achilles were only used after D-Day, so none would be very old, and I am going to depict mine in France or Holland somewhere, so only a few months after D-Day. So the vehicle will hopefully look well used, but not un-maintained. So I am thinking lots of dirt round the tracks etc especially, and general ingrained dirt and grime on the rest of the vehicle. The interior will have worn paint on the floor panels and in high use areas, around the ammo racks etc. I think I will use some lighter base colour to add some faded paint in places on the exterior, and a small amount of rust and scuffing etc. I am going to try and use oils to create water streaking down the turret sides etc as well.

Your thoughts on that would be welcome, and any tips on how to go about creating those effects, especially mud, which isn't something I have ever done much of! My thinking is that the vehicle will have been stationary for a while, so will be looking to add build up mud around the bogies etc, which would be mostly dry rather than fresh.

Thanks

[Gav0909]

Update 4

Hey ISM'rs I am back with another update showing the fruits of tonights labours.

So what have I been doing tonight, well I thought I better try out how I was going to paint and weather the interior of this vehicle. Most British AFVs in WW2 were painted pure white inside, and I can't imagine for a minute that this stayed white for very long. If you look at pictures of restored vehicles, they are very pure clean white inside, so much so that if you wanted to replicate this you wouldn't even need to shade or highlight your paintwork. However I imagine in theatre that the tread plates on the floor get worn down to the primer or metal through the crews boots, especially since British boots were hobnailed I think. Also the crew are likely to bring mud, dirt and dust in as well.

To this end I started my priming the rear floor sub assembly with Vallejo Grey Primer. I then sprayed a layer of Vallejo Game Colour Cold Grey as a "primer" coat (Shermans, M10s etc were either factory primed in red oxide or grey, depending on the manufacturer). Over this I randomly dotted some Vallejo Liquid Mask. This was then covered with a layer of Citadel Ceramite White.


The Liquid Mask was removed and the grey areas touched up where the paint had rubbed back to the plastic


On some of the larger chips, Citadel Boltgun Metal was added to mimic paint wear back to the bare metal.


The fire extinguisher was painted


Citadel Badab Black and Devlan Mud washes were used to create areas of dirt on the floor plates and in some recesses


Some earth tone pigments were diluted with water and added to the dirty areas for more tonal variation (the model had recieved a gloss coat prior to the washes being added


A coat of matt varnish sealed the pigments in and toned everything back down


So I know that these pictures might all look the same, but hopefully they provide and insight into how the weathering on the fighting compartment floor was achieved. I reckon this is likely to be the area with the highest amout of wear and tear, and so the forward compartment might not be so chipped and worn. But since the transmission is in there, I might use some more of the black wash in places to mimic oil leaks etc. Also the main areas of wear in there will be again the floor where the troops boots are.

Please do comment on this, as its my first time of trying this kind of "real life" weathering to create a realistic effect, and I would really like to know if I have managed this, and whether this is a method I can take into the rest of the model or do I need to do something else?

Thanks

[BrummieModeller]

Very impressive gav its the little details like the fire extinguisher makes all the difference

[Lee]

That looks ace Gav, you're really going to town bud

[PhildaFish]

Beautiful weathering on the interior with great step by step shots.
I love those shells - I don't build 1:35 but I'm tempted to get some just to use as ornaments! If you're finding the black is rubbing off too easily try using a match instead as it tends to be sootier.

[DC87]

Very nice work indeed, absolutely ace. Your technique has really brought the interior to life.

[Coen]

Looks like you're doing everything just great the end result is the test of this.
Neat idea with the mask though. I may have to try that one.
I do things in reverse with a sponge. The effect is less obvious and barely noticed sometime in interiors.

[Gav0909]

Beautiful weathering on the interior with great step by step shots.
I love those shells - I don't build 1:35 but I'm tempted to get some just to use as ornaments! If you're finding the black is rubbing off too easily try using a match instead as it tends to be sootier.

Cheers Phil, yeah I used a candle rather than a lighter which was very sooty and instantly turned the end of the casing black, but that was too much, so I rubbed some off to give a slightly sooty look which I prefered. I think I might matt varnish the casings once they are weathered, as brass shells never seem bright, and always quite dull so I think that will work well to give that effect.

Tonights work will be focussed on building up more of the gun, I won't be able to add the barrel until my RB models metal replacement gets here, but I will build up the rest.

Thanks for the comments, they are much appreciated.

[T3hGuppy]

Some great progress.

Very nice weathering.

[Paul]

Looking good gav, nice weathering, one thing I would now add is a very light wash to the entire surface, say a highly thinned black (80/20 thinner to paint). That would tie it all together then I think

[Gav0909]

Looking good gav, nice weathering, one thing I would now add is a very light wash to the entire surface, say a highly thinned black (80/20 thinner to paint). That would tie it all together then I think

Yeah I might try it on one small section and see how it looks, in natural light etc there is quite a bit of definition there already. I just don't want to run the risk that I over darken it, or give it a grimier appearance than I really want with it. Will give it a go on a small corner though and see how it looks.

I *may* have also just ordered another set of that brass ammo, its gorgeous! Also the issue being that the base kit is actually Academy's M10 with the 3" gun, and so you get a load of ammo canisters for the internal storage racks, whereas the larger 17 pdr ammo in the Achilles was stored in these racks as they were, not in canisters. And you only get 5 shells in the kit, so I will use those on the bottom of the racks and add some of the brass ones on the top. Although I am going to depict this in the aftermath of a decent fight, so the internal racks will be far from full anyway, which is just as well, as the brass casings are slightly too large for the racks, so I need to shave some off each of the moulded bits of the rack ends to get the rounds to fit. But it gives me plenty more spent casings to spread around inside, on and outside of the vehicle.

[Coen]

Whenever I want to try out a new wash, or test a paint colour, etc I usually do it on the bottom of the tank's hull. Most times there are lots of rivets and panels there that will give a good test bed without it being visible after completion. You can also cover it all up with mud and dirt when you're done to.

I really can't wait to see how this is going to turn out Gav, you've got a great idea going here. I think that this will be a nice little show stealer.

[bullgill67]

lovely work on the weathering there

michael

[Gav0909]

Update 5

Good evening ladies and gentlefiends. It's that time again, time for Gav to show you what he has been working on this evening.

Ok, so enough of the 3rd person! So, this evening's work would appear to have taken me to the end of the major construction parts. I think if I was to do any more assembly just now I would end up having painting issues down the line.

So, first thing I did this evening was try to recreate an emtpy "ready rack" for the back of the turret. There are two of these racks in the back of the turret and they hold 3 rounds each, in close reach for loading into the gun. However the kit comes with the rack and the rounds moulded as one piece, and since I want to depict this after some heavy action, I thought that it would be odd to have those racks full. So I had to scratchbuilt a rack.....

I used this picture as a reference, you can see the rack on the turret rear in the upper left hand corner of the pic.


And so out came the plasticard, and a while later I had this..


And it even fits the brass rounds!


I also finished off the breech and recoil mechanism for the gun, this will be painted separately otherwise I wouldn't be able to paint it all if I installed it now.



I got the various details added to the turret ring


And as you can see when the gun is placed there, that the recoil shield is actually too big. Looking at reference pics the side "fences" are too long, so to compensate, I have modelled the 3rd seat in a folded position, otherwise it wouldn't fit.


I then moved on and got the turret built up to the point that if I stuck the sides on then I would have issues with painting the interior details I think. Note the amount of ejector pinmarks that had to be filled on these parts!


And a quick snap of everything so far just sat together.


And all of this evenings work has been helped along by chinese food and.....


So, moving on, I am hoping to have my RB models barrel and aerials through soon, meaning I can build the gun up to completion bar installation in the turret. And I will double check all small details are added to the hull, perhaps add the jerry cans, spare road wheels etc now and in theory I can start to primer things, at least the inside.

Thank you for all the comments so far, I much appreciate them. Glad to see that this build is pleasing people. If there is anything you would like me to show, or explain better then feel free to ask. Although up til now most of this build has been pretty straight forward and OOB.

Comments are most welcome, and I will be back with another update before the weekend is out I am sure!

[Paul]

More great work gav

Ive got a few bit coming from rb themselves, did you order direct?

Starting the king tiger tomorrow too

[DC87]

Great work, coming along nicely. Nice stein glass too

Can't wait to see more.

[Tamiyasnob]

That,s a lot of plastic , nice looking kit though, best of luck with this I am following this with interest'

[Coen]

Man those brass rounds are crisp.
They are really going to show off in the diorama.
Such a good idea.