Armourfast SU-85 Diorama

Post by **PhildaFish** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:20 am

Thanks Bill!
I really need to work on this thread, I've only done one evening's serious work on the dio but lots of bits here and there. Everything's kind of on hold whilst waiting for the barrel to arrive from Hong Kong; it didn't come today which I was hoping for as Bridgwater postal workers are on strike (again) tomorrow which means it won't be here until at least Monday... Also awaiting some kits which I was allowed to buy on my wedding anniversary (Poor wifey didn't have a clue what to get me so I just picked a few models until she said "that's enough!") OH! I forgot, I bought a copy of "The Black Hole" on DVD to watch with my son (he's a big sci-fi fan) and was hoping it would come today to coincide with (what I hoped would be a good) school report. It turned out to be a fantastic report but I can't give him his present. I'm so impatient!
I'm rambling away here and completely off-topic, sorry. I'll post up some progress tomorrow.

Post by **Coen** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:49 am

hahha
You're awesome Phil!

Post by **Bagpiper** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:29 am

OK Phil - put down the random statement generator and get some updates done man SHEESH!!!!

Oh! and have a nice day

Cheers
Jim

Post by **PhildaFish** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:04 pm

Thanks Coen and sorry Jim! The base for this project started off as just a flat piece of MDF painted in a red shade of brown with two holes drilled for the wires but then I realised it was boring and that I needed a space underneath for the battery, switch and wires so a re-think was in order. What I did to add some interest was to sand a bit of a slope towards the viewer and then, with a large masonry drill bit, gauge out four craters.

Post by **PhildaFish** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:19 pm

I realised it would be easier to add a plinth than to carve out a groove so I made this and painted it silver.

Post by **DC87** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:51 pm

Very nice. This build has so far contained the 3 major skills of manhood - electronics, DIY and woodcraft. I can safely say you have earned your badges for all 3 of those

.

Post by **PhildaFish** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:02 pm

Thanks mate! Sometimes I don't plan ahead very effectively and have to improvise, sometimes learning new skills as I go and often do my best work this way. Of course, sometimes I make a complete hash of it that way too, but I always learn something if only how NOT to do it!
This is how it looks when the two off-cuts of MDF were put together with another coat of Games Workshop Citadel Colours Bestial Brown:

Post by **PhildaFish** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:43 pm

So this is the first stage of the diorama... umm... Background? Yeah that's probably the most fitting term for it. So, this is the first stage of the background; I'd tried something similar once but had trouble getting the fence posts and trees to stay in place so I tried simple logic to hold them in place - if I wanted a real fence post to stay in place I'd dig a hole in the ground and put the post in there ergo I drilled a line of small holes, dipped the ends of the posts into some PVA glue and then gently forced them into the holes. Bit of an oxymoron there but I was being gentle whilst trying to force them into tight holes. Anyway, grammer aside, I used the same trick for the trees but with slightly larger holes. The fence posts are matchsticks cut into three which gives you an idea of relative size.

Another new trick I tried was to leave two lines free of scatter grass and put small lines of PVA glue across to make ridges to look like tank tracks. It didn't work so I went with plan B but more on that later.

The other thing I'm sure you've noticed is the four lovely flowery looking things, well my original craters just looked too flat so I blobbed some PVA glue around the edges but that wasn't enough so I ripped some small squares of kitchen roll (tissue paper) about 1cm square and then rolled some up and screwed some up and put them in the blobs of PVA and let them unfold randomly and dry into (hopefully) more realistic clods of earth.

Post by **PhildaFish** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:06 pm

Painted the clods of earth around the craters and added a little Games Workshop Citadel Colours Chestnut Wash to add a little depth. Plan B for the tank tracks was to use a Dremmel type tool my Grandfather left me to score a series of grooves into the MDF and then let the wood soak up the slightly darker Chestnut Wash leaving a trail of lighter n darker bumps n grooves. It didn't come out quite as I envisioned but better than a flat track or no track at all. The darker wash actually dried paler than the rest of the paint but never mind, the effects the same only reversed.

The other new thing in this photo is the barbed wire (from Gale Force Nine) just looped around each post and pulled tight and looped around the next one. Easy. That explains why I used such tight fitting holes for the posts for fear of pulling them out again when I pulled the wire taught.

Post by **PhildaFish** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:08 pm

Here's a better view of the tracks, top one painted and the bottom unpainted to show what I've tried to do:

Post by **PhildaFish** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:15 pm

A bit more scatter grass added and some clumps of static grass (made by and bought in my LMS) and a few larger bits of tissue to make the craters even more three dimensional.

Post by **PhildaFish** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:22 pm

Added two bits of deadfall, bought from my LMS; it looked really lifelike in the packaging and seemed a bargain at £4.99 but when I got it home I realised I'd just spent a fiver on some dead twigs. No wonder it looked lifelike! Also added some lichen around the trees to make a hedge-row.

https://www.youtube.com/user/bnealuk · Post by **T3hGuppy** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:23 pm

PhildaFish wrote:Added two bits of deadfall, bought from my LMS; it looked really lifelike in the packaging and seemed a bargain at £4.99 but when I got it home I realised I'd just spent a fiver on some dead twigs. No wonder it looked lifelike! Also added some lichen around the trees to make a hedge-row.

Lol well they do look life like

Great base dude.

Post by **PhildaFish** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:31 pm

More paint on the latest bits of tissue paper and the background is done. Until I stare at any one piece too long and try to make it better. Figure painting next to try and break my mental block over painting people. Odd as I used to paint whole Warhammer armies 20 years ago and loved it.

Post by **PhildaFish** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:34 pm

Very true, Guppy - I got exactly what I paid for! Thanks for the kind comments, mate.

Post by **DC87** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:43 pm

Really nice autumn feel to the base, this is going to look great with the SU added. Are you finished with the electronics or are you maybe adding some street lamps or something to enhance the dio when shown in the dark?

Post by **PhildaFish** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:24 pm

DC87 wrote:Really nice autumn feel to the base, this is going to look great with the SU added. Are you finished with the electronics or are you maybe adding some street lamps or something to enhance the dio when shown in the dark?

Good point... Street lights are out as it's supposed to be out in the countryside and the lights would be blacked out anyway but something is needed... Perhaps this dio shouldn't be seen in daylight but lit on it's own. An aircraft with searchlights? More fires? You've got me thinking now, mate and I've only got a couple of weeks to finish it as I want it done before I head off to spend August with my parents. I fly out on the 30th of July so that's my deadline day. Any suggestions from anyone? Also I still haven't decided on where to put the fatal damage on the SU-85 so any suggestions on that too to make this a real 'group' build!

Post by **Nige201980** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:29 pm

Great diaroma mate never be able to do anything like that.

Post by **DC87** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:55 pm

Sorry to make you

! Modelling the fatal damage on top representing a bomb/ rocket strike would be my two cents as you could then have lights from an aircraft/ rocket flashes and the craters you have already modeled could be misses. Don't know if the Germans used flares to light up and direct bombing runs like the British did but you could model something like that.

Post by **PhildaFish** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:27 pm

Good ideas mate, I like the parachute flare idea but can't think how to have it hanging above the dio without it looking like a bulb on a stick. How about that Vallejo Water Effects Transparent Water stuff? I wonder if I try and sculpt that into flame looking things with a flickering bulb or two moulded into the base of the flame? Would that look like flames? I could sculpt it around the side of the SU-85, around the spare diesel fuel drums as if one had been punctured with a tracer bullet... Would the bulb illuminate the Vallejo Water or would it look like a bulb in a blob of dried glue? Oh! Now there's a thought, I wonder if I could do the same thing with PVA glue? That Vallejo stuff's expensive if it turns out not to work...

Post by **DC87** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:57 pm

Using PVA glue should work if you water it down and apply it in several coats over some sort of template. Otherwise i'm sure there are others ways that don't involve specific water effect materials.

Post by **PhildaFish** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:38 pm

DC87 wrote:Using PVA glue should work if you water it down and apply it in several coats over some sort of template. Otherwise i'm sure there are others ways that don't involve specific water effect materials.

Yes! I'm thinking that the more layers the more points that will reflect and refract the LED bulb beneath. I think a test may be in order here...

Post by **PhildaFish** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:50 pm

First test result = complete failure! Watered it down so much to flow into the nooks and crannies of the hastily made Blu-tack mould that it failed to set overnight.

Second test = Tried it again with slightly less water and left it on the windowsill in direct sunshine. I wonder if the Blu-tack has something to do with it not setting?

Post by **DC87** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:21 pm

PhildaFish wrote:I wonder if the Blu-tack has something to do with it not setting?

I would imagine so as Blu-tack is squidgy and absorbent, try using the top of a beer bottle or some card.

Post by **PhildaFish** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:05 pm

Second test is not looking good. The wife also said that it wouldn't set in Blu-tack - she's an SEN in a primary school and knows a lot more about PVA glue than I.

Third test is in the folds of a plastic cloak from my son's toy box, possibly Darth Vader's. I haven't used any water this time.

Post by **Lee** » Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:00 pm

Some excellent work so far Phil! You really have been filling yer boots mate....

As for the parachute flare, which would look awesome, how about a thin piece of metal wire (i.e. coat hanger or thinner) with a bend in coming from rear of base with the parachute on the end? Not sure if I've explained it right

Post by **chief5437** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:40 am

You've put so much work into this, I hope you manage to get it done before you fly. Some really cool ideas being used. Keep up the hard work!

Post by **PhildaFish** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:46 am

Thanks for the encouragement guys, I really appreciate it. I still love the idea of a parachute flare but after spending a couple of hours last night trying and failing to find an on-line store that sells all the electronic bits and pieces that I'd need I've pretty much given up on it for now. I found lots of different stores but none that sell all the bits and I can't afford to pay postage for each piece individually. So, while I try and decide which way to go with this dio, here's some progress photos to bring you all up to speed. This shot is just me trying to decide whether or not to 'people' this build,

The answer is yes as the base is just too big not to and it may help me with my mental block on painting people.

Post by **PhildaFish** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:11 am

Still waiting for the metal barrel to arrive but have pushed on with the rest of the build and I'm weathering as I go using a few techniques that I've never done before. Firstly I've made a small amount of a darker green by mixing the original Humbrol 30 with a little GW CC Black Wash to use around bolts and on the edges as you can see here:

Post by **PhildaFish** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:17 am

And then I did the opposite by mixing a little Humbrol 30 with some Humbrol 34 Matt White and a little water and painted it on the middle of the panels and any areas that would be more exposed to sunlight and thus fade more. I'm sorry I can't be more specific with the mix ratios but I was making it up as I went and not keeping track.

Post by **PhildaFish** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:30 am

Next I added a little more white to the mix and faded a little more as can be seen in this shot:

The camera flash isn't very flattering but it does highlight exactly what I've done. Like I said, I've never tried this before and have only ever seen it done with an airbrush but I like the effect and will definitely use it again.

Post by **PhildaFish** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:41 am

Here it is with the rest of the build complete except for the gun.

Post by **Lee** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:17 am

Excellent work Phil

Post by **Nige201980** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:24 am

Looks great Phil

Post by **Bagpiper** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:37 pm

Nice update Phil. Looking good mate

Cheers
Jim

https://www.youtube.com/user/bnealuk · Post by **T3hGuppy** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:42 pm

Nice paint work

Have you decided on the killing shot yet?

Post by **Coen** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:23 pm

I was wondering that myself, looks like a few hits from a ground attack aircraft along the left side of the upper hull.

Post by **PhildaFish** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:42 pm

Thank you very much guys! Haven't decided on the killing shot yet, there is a line of hits along the side but just denting not penetrating. I'm undecided on whether to do a lot more dents and dings or just one bigger hole... Can't find any photos of a SU-85 with a fatal wound so not sure where to put it... I'm not indecisive, I just can't make my mind up!

Post by **Coen** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:39 pm

These aren't SU-85s but the are examples of penetrations of armour plate.
If that helps.

Post by **PhildaFish** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:56 pm

Fantastic! A great help, Coen, thank you!

Post by **hansolo** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:52 pm

Nice work on the panzer, Phil.
Starting to look really good.
I did some 1/72 scale myself and I know the smaller the harder!

cheers

Post by **PhildaFish** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:16 pm

Cheers Han! I haven't done anything bigger than 1/72 yet, it may be the smaller the harder but it is also the smaller the cheaper!!!

Post by **hansolo** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:04 am

PhildaFish wrote:Cheers Han! I haven't done anything bigger than 1/72 yet, it may be the smaller the harder but it is also the smaller the cheaper!!!

You got that right!

Post by **Coen** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:26 am

Considering how much time, creativity, and energy you've put into this build Phil, I'd hate to see what would happen if you were let loose on a 1/16th Tiger I.

Post by **PhildaFish** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:57 pm

Coen wrote:Considering how much time, creativity, and energy you've put into this build Phil, I'd hate to see what would happen if you were let loose on a 1/16th Tiger I.

Thanks Coen! I think if that were to happen I'd spend weeks detailing about 3 square inches!!!

Post by **PhildaFish** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:41 pm

Here is a picture of a German Paratrooper taken from the book "Osprey Warrior 38 - Fallschirmjager German Paratrooper 1935-45" that I borrowed from the wonderful reference library we have here on ISM (check it out here!) So - painting people block begone! This is what I'm going to try and recreate, several times over, and straight away I find I don't have the right shades of paint...

This is the test subject, the rest will all be painted at the same time, but I need some honest criticism here guys: is this close enough to be recognized as a Fallschirmjager? I'm not sure I like the cream colour on the tunic, perhaps a grey would be better?

Post by **DC87** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:49 pm

Honestly looks spot on to me, if you have any wash paints you could go over the tunic with a dark wash to dull it down a bit. Otherwise use really watered down paint.

Post by **Coen** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:01 pm

I would maybe add a bit more of the greens and browns, more like what you have his lower leg, but the tan colour maybe in longer strips.
I think that the tan colour is fine Phil, there looks like there's just a tad too much showing.
German camo is really hard at any scale dude.
I hate the stuff... but wow is it ever striking.

https://www.youtube.com/user/bnealuk · Post by **T3hGuppy** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:16 pm

Yeah I agree a wash would set it all off nicely

Great work dude.

Post by **PhildaFish** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:58 pm

Thanks for the honest responses fellas, I know you're all great guys and it's hard to give criticism and not to say nice things all the time; I appreciate it. I was torn between a wash or a weathering powder but I'll take your advice and go with the wash.