Wittmann's Panzer III Ausf.N ala Gunze Sangyo

Post by **Coen** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:00 am

I started a new build a couple of days ago, one that I've been looking to do for some time now. There's just been a lot of other big projects on the go lately so it never got started.
I've built nearly all of the vehicles that Michael Wittmann commanded during his service in WWII, all but his panzer III.
Between commanding a Stug and switching to a tiger, he commanded a panzer III Ausf N for a short time. Just before Operation Zitadelle. The end of winter 1943 to the beginning of spring saw Wittmann ride in a stug, a panzer III and then the tiger.

The kit that I will use is a gunze sangyo kit that I got from Paul last summer. It's a hell of a nice kit considering it's era. I didn't have to do a lot to it out of the box. I replaced a few small bits, but for the most part she built well right out of the box. I was going to use the kit tracks but I found a half assembled, Ultimate burnished set of fruilmodel tracks in my spares bin.
So I used that. The kit tracks weren't responding well to TET and to be honest... I was getting pissed right off at them.

I have a small vignette in mind for it, so hopefully that will work out well.

Post by **arkbuilder2012** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:55 pm

Impressive!!! I'd forgotten how nice those Gunze kits were. Cost a fortune back in the day.

Post by **Coen** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:18 pm

They still do most places.

YouTube · Post by **Kingdan** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:29 pm

Looks a beast might try me some armour one of these days

Post by **panzerdodge** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:39 pm

What a great looking kit can't wait to see the end result. By the way are there any pictures of Wittmann's Panzer III any where?.

Post by **Coen** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:40 pm

None that I'm aware of ... And I've been looking for a few years.

Post by **TheTroyster** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:53 pm

This thing looks cool without any paint - just leave it this way and pass it off as some steampunk something. Or not.

Post by **mannloon** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:15 am

panzerdodge wrote:What a great looking kit can't wait to see the end result. By the way are there any pictures of Wittmann's Panzer III any where?.

The closest thing you could get to seeing a picture of Wittmann's Panzer III is to look at any images of "light platoon" Panzer IIIs of LSSAH at the third battle of Kharkov. The timeline for Wittmann in 43 is the subject of some debate. What is known is that during that battle he was still commanding a Panzer III (Mid Feb 43) and that by Kursk in July of course he was commanding his Tiger.

The debate surrounds when he received his Tiger, which would dictate depending on it's delivery date, when it was manufactured and therefore what features it would have had. This may not seem like a huge deal but a lot changed in those months on the Tiger. So, kits like Dragon's 1331 Wittmann Tiger have been designed using photographs of tanks in the same unit in the same place and time.

I would follow the same procedure with any vehicle that i was researching. The problem is this is still just guesswork. Otto Carius's Mid Tiger for instance had many special features we just could never have known about had photographs not survived the war.

YouTube · Post by **PanzerGarage** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:26 pm

What a great looking kit can't wait to see the end result. I will have a look to see if I come across anything that may assist.

Post by **Coen** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:14 pm

The panzer III is mostly finished now, I may yet add a few small things like stowage frames and incidentals.
I replaced the kit tracks for a set of Fruilmodelisimo tracks that I found in my spares bins. They were even pre-burnished with Ultimate.

It was a wonderful little kit that fell together like pancakes and syrup. A total treat to build.

I decided that I wanted a small diorama to go with it as well, I figured maybe a bridge... and a knocked out soviet tank to go along with it.

First... a scratch build bridge made from assorted sized dowels and coffee stirrers. Took about an hour while chatting with the fellas on a hang out.

I thought maybe this base at first, but the fellas suggested something bigger.

So I went with this one. A Bridge Over Perineum I think I'll call it
A knocked out Soviet T-37M in a river with the panzer III crossing the bridge next to it.
Nice and simple.

Post by **Jip** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:08 pm

What a metal parts, it looks very impressive!

Post by **MarkVerploeg** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:00 pm

Nice build so far
I like the bridge ,they are so simple to make but still looks so cool
And when you know you made it your self it is even better as i think mot everything has to be in a kit
Some things you can do without much trouble
I didn't know Wittmann had a Ausf. N though , only that he had a Panzer III at some point
But i still have 1 question , the turret looks a bit big for a Panzer III and since this has the same gun as the Panzer IV had in it's early versions is it a Panzer IV turret
I was wondering because i have a Beob Panzer III and those had modified Panzer IV turret wich where bigger then the original Panzer III turret although they do look the same for the most part
Anyway keep up the good work

Post by **Coen** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:11 am

As far as I know, the only variant that had a different turret is the beob ausf K. I'm assuming that's the one that you're talking about.
All of the others has the same turret but had larger or smaller modifications to the frontal armour and to the gun mounts, depending on which weapon was installed.
Out of curiosity, I compared this turret to the turrets of two Pz IIIs that I have that are dragon kits and they're all the same size.
I did notice that the hull on this kit seem a bit out of whack, a bit wide and short for a panzer III. That might be what is messing with how the turret appears.

Post by **Coen** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:00 am

A bit of a burnt umber oil wash to age the wood before bed.

Post by **TheTroyster** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:42 am

Did this tank - or was this tank - equipped with a 37mm gun?

Post by **lucasner** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:36 am

You're a beast, Coen!

Post by **Coen** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:25 am

lucasner wrote:You're a beast, Coen!

Hahahaha! Made me laugh. Yer silly.

TheTroyster wrote:Did this tank - or was this tank - equipped with a 37mm gun?

Types A,b,c,d,e, and g had 3.7cm guns. Not this one though.

Post by **MarkVerploeg** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:12 am

Coen wrote:As far as I know, the only variant that had a different turret is the beob ausf K. I'm assuming that's the one that you're talking about.
All of the others has the same turret but had larger or smaller modifications to the frontal armour and to the gun mounts, depending on which weapon was installed.
Out of curiosity, I compared this turret to the turrets of two Pz IIIs that I have that are dragon kits and they're all the same size.
I did notice that the hull on this kit seem a bit out of whack, a bit wide and short for a panzer III. That might be what is messing with how the turret appears.

I see
I can't remember wich Ausf. It was so i think you could be right
Thanks for taking a look at this

Post by **Coen** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:49 am

A bit of lamp black oil wash for the round cut logs, a grey wash for the boards and beams with a burn umber wash on top of that to show the grain.

YouTube · Post by **PanzerGarage** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:44 pm

awesome mate...I like how it just keeps growing....can't wait to see what you do next

Post by **OliveDrab** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:19 pm

Its always a treat to follow your builds Mike! As usual another fantastic build going

Post by **rodrant** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:40 pm

Again a very nice build ! Like a lot the Bridge , and made in one hour ! Wow ! Will look a very nice diorama and one more to follow !

Oh I like the tank also buddy

Post by **TheTroyster** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:43 pm

Now that I have a big boy computer screen in front of me I can actually read the small print on the box which states the size of the gun...

Post by **Coen** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:45 pm

Thanks fellas

Started work on the base itself today.
The edges were walled up with foamboard and the interior filled with cardboard filler.

Then I mixed up some celluclay and black paint to create the surface.

Then some stones are emebedded while the mix is still wet.
I also built up the road surface and added some wooden reinforcement to the underside of the bridges.

Next I added some ground scatter and small stones and sticks.

Then some figures and a mock up.

Post by **MikeyKb** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:36 pm

incredibly gorgeous work, as always.
just. wow!
You gonna have some water running under that bridge?
Also, do you buy your celluclay, or make your own?

Post by **Coen** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:53 pm

Yup... There will be water... I haven't decided if it will be rushing, running, or a frozen thing as yet.
The scene is supposed to represent the eastern front during the late winter early spring of March/April 1943. So all are possible.
I buy my celluclay from Michaels... Use the White, not the grey stuff. It cracks less.

Post by **Coen** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:18 pm

While I waiting for the base to dry I got to work on the figures and the vehicles.
Base painting, decaling, and detail painting.

A bit of ammo Russian greens for the t37...

And some mid war colours for the panzer three. It was difficult to narrow down a camo pattern for the panzer III as there wasn't a tonne of solid material on it. Most of the info that you find for this period gets over shadowed by the arguments about when and what tiger wittmann was issued in May.
I did find that wittmann was either in a panzer III M or N during this time, there is some debate on this, some say that he may even have ridden in a J, but his vehicle number was most likely 4L1. An unusual one to me.
I'm using an N because it's what I have in my stores and no one knows for sure what he rode in.

I also got the figures painted and ready for washes...

Next is gloss coats for the tanks then chipping, and glosses for the figures then washes.

Post by **MikeyKb** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:24 pm

love those figures, Mike!
Where are they from?

Post by **Jagdpanzer** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:00 pm

Figures in particular are outstanding in an excellent piece of work overall.

YouTube · Post by **Kingdan** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:19 pm

Awesome awesome awesome

Post by **Nige201980** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:29 pm

OMG your at it again every time I look at your work my jaw just drops. Simply stunning no other words needed.

Post by **Coen** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:58 pm

Thanks Fellas

MikeyKb wrote:love those figures, Mike!
Where are they from?

It's dragons figure set 6518

here' a link to a set on scale hobbyist https://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagorie ... ngrad,1943

Post by **MikeyKb** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:59 pm

Coen wrote:Thanks Fellas

MikeyKb wrote:love those figures, Mike!
Where are they from?
It's dragons figure set 6518

here' a link to a set on scale hobbyist https://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagorie ... ngrad,1943

Thanks, bud.
Do you use Scaelhobbyist often? You've recommended it to me before, and I just tried comparing the price of those figures to that on ebay (haven't been able to track them down on luckymodel...) do you find things are generally cheaper (even with the xchange rate) from this site?
Just wondering.

Hope you're well.

Post by **Coen** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:29 pm

Simply put, for me it can be.

I buy nothing in Canada sadly. I can't afford it.
With the taxes and the silly shipping prices venders need to charge here, the prices are ridiculous for almost every product that I need.
A kit at my local shop going for $100 plus the 15% sales tax and the 40 minutes of driving and gas, can't compare to the same kit for 59.99 in Asia with $18 shipping marked as a low value invoice.
Canada dollar is so bad right now and has been for a while that I haven't bought much of anything in some time. A few odds and ends and a couple of cheap kits from friends.
Scale hobbyist is cheaper than some, but Asia is usually the cheapest for me.
I used to shop at Hobbylinc USA and dragon USA, but they don't allow PayPal (dragon flat out doesn't have it and Hobbylinc won't let you use it on international orders). So I stopped shopping there a few years ago. They both zapped my credit card more than once.
Now it's... No PayPal no purchase.
And if they charge me for using it.... I won't shop either.
So my options are limited. My money... I'll spend it my way right.

Post by **mannloon** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:57 am

Those figures are one of the coolest 1/35 scale things I've seen in a long time. Those coats blow me away.

If I'm not buying from ebay (which I almost always do) it's scalehobbyist for me. Great place.

As to the Panzer III type Wittmann road in. You're right, there is no way to know. I've always heard L/M, and that's what all of the pictures of his unit at Kharkov were in. But he was charged with defending the Tiger tanks from infantry, so being in an N would have made sense. And whenever the establishment of this or any other well known unknown says an un-provable thing is so, I wonder just who they are quoting.

Post by **Coen** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:43 am

I tend to avoid using information that I find on the internet in my research, unless I can vet it against acceptable printed material by respected historians and authors. Normally I hit the books first, then use the internet to help me find more books or to help me ask more questions, which leads me to yet more books. The Wild West nature of the internet makes it a highly unreliable source of information for me. I use bits and pieces only to speed things along, not as a go to source.
Many of the sites that I looked at for information used one single source for their references and didn't really say why they chose it.. if they stated it at all. I like a more open minded less soap box presentation of history than what some of the sites offer.

Work update for yesterday and today.

Glosses are on everything and I slopped some Ultimate Dark Dirt on the vehicles and some oils on the figures.

Then removed with cottonbuds and water.

Did some work on the pz III tracks as well. They were already burnished with Ultimate fluid, so I added some Ultimate Earth wash for a nice deep worn tone.
I brushed it off with a stiff brush once it was dry...

Some oils added to the figures... a lamp black oil wash and a tiny amount of burnt umber to the faces.

Then a flat coat for everything... testors dullcote.

Then a bit of chipping with Vallejo Model Colour's Germ. Cam. Black Brown and then drybrushing with AMMO's gunmetal and a little work with an HB pencil to highlight the larger chips and areas of high wear.

Then I added two coats of Ultimate Winter Wash to the T-37.
I added two coats by brush because I'm lazy and hate masking... otherwise I would have sprayed it on.

Second coat...

Finally I added the tracks and wheels on the pz III so that they could be pigmented all together later.
That will be next along with chipping and weathering the winter wash on the T-37.

Post by **MikeyKb** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:47 am

gorgeous, Mike!

Do you use Hobby Link Japan at all? I use them ALL the time, SO CHEAP, most of the stuff I order (Acc, P.E, after market stuff, decals...) all has free shipping too! ...AND take paypal.
Trust me, I know your pain with the Canadian dollar. Worth nothing. it's infuriating, since we're a MUCH better country, all around, then at least the United States

... However, I do find the prices at my new LHS on the West Coast MUCH cheaper, with a much larger selection, which is due to cheaper taxes, and, the unfortunate truth, it's not at the ends of the world in Nova Scotia anymore

Everything was stupid expensive out there compared to everywhere else I've lived in this country of ours

Cheers.

Post by **Coen** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:32 am

I use them off and on. I find that a lot of the time when I go looking for something there it's out of stock though.
I was buying all the bandai Star Wars stuff from there since it was so cheap.
When Disney shuts it down I'll have to buy them from eBay.
When I was I Ottawa for 8 months a few years ago I discovered how cheap everything was everywhere else.
Same when I was in BC. The trouble with those places though... They aren't home.
As expensive as it is... This is home and I'll stay here till I pack it in.
I'm that sort of crazy hahaha.

Post by **arkbuilder2012** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:57 am

Superb!! Tank looks great. Like those ground troops - they're making me shiver.

YouTube · Post by **PanzerGarage** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:25 am

Mike, that is fantastic. I don't know how you manage to turn these models around so quickly - this would take me months to do.
Those figures in particular are outstanding - I found myself just staring at them. How you get that level of detail is beyond me.
Glad to see you went with an N model. As you well know with the debate over the Tiger, know one actually knows for sure either way so its good to get the establishment thinking now and then
Look forward to seeing the finished dio mate

Post by **MikeyKb** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:34 am

hahahahaha I get that. I've been moving around so much for so long that (unfortunately) I don't have any roots anywhere specific. But, time will tell. As far as I know, they've already nixed the Bandai Star Wars kit purchasing, however you can still find the kits on ebay. Lots of their stuff is out of stock, true. But LuckyModel always has things in stock, or on reorder - I LOVE luckymodel!! definitely my #1

YouTube · Post by **Kingdan** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:10 pm

great work Mike

Post by **Coen** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:43 pm

The second coat of the Ultimate Winter Wash on the t-37 has been added and wear effects added.
Basically the wash is added to the flat varnished surface then allowed to dry, once dry it's abused with an assortment of stiff brushes, cotton buds, and sponges. Later it will get a flat coat to seal it in.

Then I took all the main elements of the diorama and mocked them up pre-weathering, mostly to help me to decide if I want to make a winter dio or a muddy early spring diorama.

Next I gave the Panzer III it's winter camo.
Ultimate Winter Wash over a gloss surface this time. I haven't used it over a gloss surface as yet, so I wanted to see what features I could achieve.
I brushed it on in two coats, making the coats on the sides of the vehicle thicker than the top surfaces of the vehicle.
Then I dampened a medium soft bristled wide brush and used it to damage the surface as if from crew passage and add rain streaks to the sides of the vertical surfaces. I wanted it to look like it had been a while since the camo was added and it was nearly worn off now.

Then I sealed it all under a coat of Testor's Dullcote, let that dry and added a few rust streaks to the larger chipped areas.

Next I added some Ultimate Earth Wash to the lower hull behind the wheels, the wheels themselves (minus the rubber faces of the tyres), the tracks, the bow and rear plates.

Next will be some dried mud spatter effects and a little bit of pigment work, dirt and soot.

Post by **Diverrob** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:42 pm

Looks amazing,Mike. Thank you for sharing your work.

**Felis Barcinonensis YouTube Channel** · Post by **felisbarcinonensis** » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:06 am

Love it Michael!! Impressive!!!!

Post by **TheTroyster** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:05 am

Hey Michael,

I must be going crazy but I could have sworn you had a picture and the name of the white plaster stuff you use for the base? I came back here to write that brand and name down and can't find it - can you give the name and brand again please? Going to try it on a Vietnam build I think I'll do next.

UPDATE Found it celluclay - sometimes I worry about myself.

Thanks for your comments on my Pax build, I closely followed your build - used different washes - and it pushed my skills to a new level, but I just took my time, didn't force anything and am happy with results. Thanks again for documenting all these great builds it helps me, and others I hope, a lot.

Troy

Post by **OliveDrab** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:01 am

Fantastic stuff Coen, all of it...the Panzer III and the figures winter coats are especially impressive

Post by **hansolo** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:55 pm

Damn Mike, how could I have missed this thread till now!
This is totally awesome stuff! I love the Panzer III, it's one of my favorites.
Excellent job, painting. That dio is darn good! Love the bridge!!! Are you gonna do water too?
And one special note on those figures: Those coats are painted SICK GOOOOD!!!

And awesome figures BTW..

Can't wait to see more!

Post by **Coen** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:32 am

Thanks Fellas!!
I get just as much from your posts as you do mine. Probably more though... a lot more.
I've learned a huge amount from what you fellas all do, no matter what level of experience you're at. There's always something there that can inspire or trigger a new line of thinking on how I do things.
I can't tell you how much all of your work has done for me and my hobby.
If my sloppy skills and fly by the seat of my pants builds can return half of what all of you have given me than I consider myself lucky.

The last week or so I've been spending a lot of time working on my Out of a Pickle diorama for the Hind buddy build, but when ever I get a chance I would add a bit of paint to the figures or another layer of water to the stream bed for the diorama.
That takes forever... 2-4 mm at a time and a 24 hour setting time between layers... to a total of about 1.5mm deep in places.
That was where it started...

Then I got the crazy idea to maybe add a second panzer III to the diorama, this time an Ausf M. Maybe even to replace the Ausf N depending on the result when it was finished...
I also decided to add a couple more figures.
That has also slowed things up a bit.

Here's where it sits at the moment. I'm still trying to decide if I want the stream bed to be a frozen one or a flowing one. The difference would be that I add some wave effects with some crystal gel for flowing water, or some snow and frost effects for the frozen surface.
Neither is difficult, but it will change the end look of the piece quite a bit... so I'm a bit stuck.
I've never done either effect before so I'm dithering about it.

Post by **TheTroyster** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:51 am

Imo I'd say go frozen, making the whole diorama look a little colder will match up better with those German's winter clothing.