Help needed on first model...

Post by **Augustus** » Wed May 18, 2016 11:41 am

... M4 Sherman

Hi guys,

I'm just building my first ever model, an M4 Sherman and need a bit of advice.
Below is what I'm going to do step by step and the supplies are chosen from what is available, and what seems a good product, in my neck of the woods. I'd appreciate your input on these steps, are they in the right order and if the products I'll be using are all compatible:

* Prime with Tamiya spray can.
* Paint with Tamiya acrylic paint thinned with either Tamiya Acrylic or Lacquer thinner (which is best?).
* Coat of Alclad Aqua Gloss.
* Decals and weathering, various
* Coat of Alclad Klear Kote Matte

Also use Alclad Airbrush cleaner for cleaning after each product.

I've written this quickly so have I missed any steps? Are all the above compatible with one another? (These are all readily available, supposed to be good quality and are relatively good value).

I already have the Tamiya primer and paints and the Aqua Gloss.

Thanks in advance.

Post by **spock1701** » Wed May 18, 2016 12:51 pm

First off, welcome to the forum. Always good to have new members.

It seems to me that apart from the mashing of weathering into one step (weathering is often many long, hard steps), all that looks fine. If you are using Tamiya acrylic, then definitely use the acrylic thinner. One thing I have learned is to never mix acrylic with lacquer or enamel. Use only acrylic products.

If you do not have the Klear Kote Matte already, may I suggest the AK Interactive Ultra Matte Varnish? That stuff works like a charm and is acrylic , unlike the Klear Kote. No fumes, less mess.

Other than that, I have nothing else to input, although I'm sure someone else will pretty soon. Good luck.

Post by **AgentG** » Wed May 18, 2016 5:00 pm

Tamiya's Laquer Thinner is formulated for use with their paints. It performs flawlessly. Tamiya acrylic is ore of a laquer that a real water based acrylic anyway.

G

Post by **Augustus** » Thu May 19, 2016 1:29 pm

Thanks for that G, I was sure I'd read that Tamiya Lacquer works well for thinning Tamiya acrylics, but have read-up quite a lot (without taking notes at first) and thought I might have been confused.

Can you also use IPA to thin paint and clean the airbrush?

When I got this kit I bought all the colours I'd need but have since often read that Tamiya acrylics are a real pain to handbrush which I will have to do for the smaller parts. Can anyone offer me any tips for hand rushing Tamiya acrylics since I've already bought them. I'll be airbrushing most of the model.

My local modelling shop sells Vallejo but I can't afford to buy their paints yet as I haven't worked since September last year when I fractured my spine.

Post by **Kevthemodeller** » Thu May 19, 2016 4:25 pm

I too am currently building an M4 mine is the M4A3E8 version http://www.intscalemodeller.com/viewtop ... 29&t=17439

If you trawl through there are some very help links to the help I got from others.

Post by **OliveDrab** » Thu May 19, 2016 4:32 pm

Augustus wrote:Thanks for that G, I was sure I'd read that Tamiya Lacquer works well for thinning Tamiya acrylics, but have read-up quite a lot (without taking notes at first) and thought I might have been confused.

Can you also use IPA to thin paint and clean the airbrush?

When I got this kit I bought all the colours I'd need but have since often read that Tamiya acrylics are a real pain to handbrush which I will have to do for the smaller parts. Can anyone offer me any tips for hand rushing Tamiya acrylics since I've already bought them. I'll be airbrushing most of the model.

My local modelling shop sells Vallejo but I can't afford to buy their paints yet as I haven't worked since September last year when I fractured my spine.

The short answer is yes, IPA can be used to thin Tamiya paint and clean the airbrush. You will have to do a bit a trial and error to see how well this works for you.

I'll normally use Tamiya acrylic thinner, but have also used distilled water with good results for thinning Tamiya paint.

Brush painting Tamiya paint can be a challenge, but it can be done. The paint will need to be thinned well, and I also add a few drops of Tamiya retarder to slow the dry time. Again it will take a bit a trial and error to test what works best.

Post by **digger303** » Fri May 20, 2016 2:13 am

Tamiya paint is in fact a lacquer paint even though it is promoted as water based so lacquer actually performs best with lacquer thinner. you don't get that dusty look when AB-ing and goes down very flat.
Mr hobby color self leveling thinner mixed with x-22 gives a very nice clear coat.
check the guides on this site and you won't go wrong.

Post by **Augustus** » Sun May 22, 2016 3:18 am

So I started building my tank. I was taking my time to try and make sure I was doing it right and was quite pleased with my progress.

Then I knocked the bloody glue over, b*gger.

I don't know if the photos will upload as it's the first time I've done that too.

I have cleaned up the parts the best I can so far, although the melting and my sanding marks can be seen they are smooth to the touch, would they show through the paint and coats. Any further suggestions are welcome,

Post by **AgentG** » Sun May 22, 2016 7:41 am

Those panels were just large rolled steel sheets on the real tank anyway. They weren't perfectly smooth and any "texture" left by the glue mishap would just add to the character of the build.
That's also a real good place to add stowage.................
G

Post by **Kevthemodeller** » Sun May 22, 2016 8:42 am

Looking good

Post by **Augustus** » Sun May 22, 2016 11:26 am

Cheers guys, glad I ain't made a complete mess of it as I've been off work since September after an accident where I fractured a couple of vertebrae so money's a bit short at the moment.

But I do have another kit, Tamiya Cromwell and some other goodies, which should be arriving tomorrow.

So that should cheer me up,

Thanks!

Post by **Augustus** » Thu May 26, 2016 11:22 am

A bit of progress, starting to look like a tank.

Unfortunately there's already some battle damage to the headlight protectors:

Post by **Augustus** » Fri May 27, 2016 8:24 am

First ever bit of primeing, I only had Tamiya grey in a spray can.

Tomorrow may try to paint the figures, I'm not really looking forward to that.

Post by **Augustus** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:34 am

OK, I finally got to do some more on this and then came the bit I was dreading, the figures, and man the faces (see below) oh man the faces!

All I did was use some Tamiya flesh tone, which came out very light, and then a couple of darker colours for the details. I tried my finest brush (which is very fine) and then tried a cocktail stick/toothpick but still made a mess of it. I tried to cover some of the mistakes with a bit of a touch up using a light rust colour from a Tamiya weathering master set.

So what I'm after here is some advice, what can I do to make this easier. I'm not after a masterpiece or a prize just something simple that someone with absolutely no idea can do.

Nev and digger have already given me some pointers.

I know that's asking a helluva lot but Anything will be an improvement.

Cheers guys!

Post by **Augustus** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:34 am

On the plus side I'm not using the standing guy doing the Tommy Cooper impression, I only need two of the 'half' guys and I have two sets of goggles

Post by **InitialProduction1** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:45 am

Heck your getting there, figures can be a real pain. There are some really good figure guys out there, I've helped my figure painting out A LOT! just watching them. Look up on YouTube under painting figures.

Post by **Augustus** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:43 am

Yeah I've watched a few vids and learnt some, but practice is a bit different.

I think my next step for these ones though must be some kind of wash. The only one I have is Tamiyas Brown Panel Line Accent, but they may be too dark.

A friend of a friends dad used to model and gave me a few (he only had the 7 unopened ones and had thrown the rest) old Humbrol enamels as he didn't use them anymore and I've just made my own Red Brick wash but that may be too light.

My paints are all acrylic, can you use acrylic wash over acrylic paint?

So, I've given them a couple of thin coats of Aqua Gloss (they're nice and shiny!), do I go for a dark brown wash or a brick reddy one?

Post by **ForbesHutton** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:57 am

I use toothpick/cocktail sticks just to do the whites on the eyes and a sewing pin to put on the iris.

Post by **Augustus** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:24 am

ForbesHutton wrote:I use toothpick/cocktail sticks just to do the whites on the eyes and a sewing pin to put on the iris.

I tried toothpicks but I must have had a bad batch

Post by **Augustus** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:30 am

I gave them a wash with the Tamiya brown Panel Line Accent and then drybrushed with Tamiya flat flesh and think that's about all I can do with the stuff I have.

Post by **Augustus** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:16 pm

Lost the tiny screw cap for the Jerry can, had to improvise, but dont think I'll use it.

Post by **Augustus** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:25 pm

Finished of what was left of construction, glued the half dudes in and fixed the 2 half of hull together. Masked off the half dudes peeping through the top and added primer.

dog's dangly bits.

Although I masked off the little men, when priming as I was spraying inside the wheel arches I've covered the bottom of the little 'uns. I haven't taken the mask off yet so don't know how far it goes, hopefully only the bottom where you can't see too good.

I'm certainly learning by the mistakes I've made as they're quite painful.

Post by **nemisous** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:40 pm

So far it's looking really nice for a first kit, already better than me at figure painting.

Post by **Augustus** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:29 am

Thanks nemisous but I've seen your figures and you're stretching the truth a wee bit there.

Anyway last night was my first go at airbrushing a real subject and I layed down two coats which I let dry overnight. Went to put a third, and hopefully last, coat on this morning and have noticed that where the tools, especially the round fuel drum, meet the body of the tank the paint has sort of modded it into one. What would cause this, too thick a layer? I did the third coat only lightly touching these areas and have now left to dry now to see how it looks. When that's happened I'll post some pics.

Post by **Augustus** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:53 am

Any suggestions apart from placing something in front? It was hard to get on camera of iPad but I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about.

Post by **chalkyw** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:44 am

Augustus wrote:Thanks nemisous but I've seen your figures and you're stretching the truth a wee bit there.

Anyway last night was my first go at airbrushing a real subject and I layed down two coats which I let dry overnight. Went to put a third, and hopefully last, coat on this morning and have noticed that where the tools, especially the round fuel drum, meet the body of the tank the paint has sort of modded it into one. What would cause this, too thick a layer? I did the third coat only lightly touching these areas and have now left to dry now to see how it looks. When that's happened I'll post some pics.

Good job so far Augustus......I'm new to this as well so don't really know why your paint has pooled but the only thing I can think of is that there was some glue there that you didn't notice before it got covered in paint?

I think we're building the same kit at the moment (Tamiya M4 Early Production??) but I'm doing it as a British tank in the desert. You can see mine here if you're interested http://www.intscalemodeller.com/viewtop ... 4&start=20

Keep up the good work and like me there's lots to learn & hopefully we'll getthe hang of it oneday.....practice, practice, practice
Cheers

Chalky

Post by **Augustus** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:32 am

im now up to the stage of adding the gloss coat for decal and washes etc. I used Alclad Aqua Gloss, just 2 light coats, but I seem to have lost of my carefully done tiny chipping (done with sponge). I guess it won't hurt to add some more now.

Post by **InitialProduction1** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:15 am

Very nice Augustus, are you putting that on a Doirama? I do like looking at it. Good job.

Post by **Augustus** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:36 am

InitialProduction1 wrote:Very nice Augustus, are you putting that on a Doirama? I do like looking at it. Good job.

Nah mate, I won't be mounting it. It's my first model and I'm really just trying out stuff I've read about, and there's a few mistakes in there, not that I didn't didn't try my best. When I started it I didn't even know what a diorama was!

I am glad you like it though.

Post by **Vleugelmoer** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:02 pm

spock1701 wrote: It seems to me that apart from the mashing of weathering into one step (weathering is often many long, hard steps), all that looks fine. If you are using Tamiya acrylic, then definitely use the acrylic thinner. One thing I have learned is to never mix acrylic with lacquer or enamel. Use only acrylic products.

There is nothing wrong with doing a nice pin / sludge wash or even a nice filter with oils or enamels. To gut down on the stick factor oderless turpentine works a treat.

the Alclad II varnishes are enamel based and are for lack of a better words and avoiding provanities, well worth steering clear of IMO. Time they come up with a acrylic matt as there aqua gloss is the brass watsets.

as to your question on what type of thinner to use for Tamiya acrylics. Go for either X-20 A (A is for acrilics). The Ultimate thinner is also very suitable for thinning all acrylic paints.

As always happy modeling and keep sticking styrene.

Paul

Post by **Augustus** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:20 am

Vleugelmoer wrote:
spock1701 wrote:
There is nothing wrong with doing a nice pin / sludge wash or even a nice filter with oils or enamels. To gut down on the stick factor oderless turpentine works a treat.

the Alclad II varnishes are enamel based and are for lack of a better words and avoiding provanities, well worth steering clear of IMO. Time they come up with a acrylic matt as there aqua gloss is the brass
As always happy modeling and keep sticking styrene.

Paul

Hey Paul,
What I plan at the moment is a little bit more chipping, then a panel wash, some light streaking and some sort of dusting effect. Then just add the tracks, that are already painted and rusted, and put a bit of mud on them. I don't have any pigments at the moment.

Apart from not being acrylic is there actually anything wrong Alclads varnishes? Is there anything that I should watch out for using them?

Post by **Vleugelmoer** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:50 pm

The Alclad II Varnishes are Enamel and in PC English the are "temperamental" at best. They dry slower that a speeding snail and remain tacky even after the quoted drying time has come and gone by as much as day's. The only exception is their Aquagloss which works as advertised on the label.

For acrylic varnishes the Tamiya ones are my preferred go to option closely followed by the Vallejo Polyurethane varnishes.

As always happy modeling and keep sticking styrene down under.

Paul

Post by **chalkyw** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:29 pm

Great progress Augustus

, it's looking good and the home straight is in sight

......I might have try a US build sometime as well as my British one.
Cheers

Chalky

Post by **Augustus** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:40 pm

chalkyw wrote:Great progress Augustus , it's looking good and the home straight is in sight ......I might have try a US build sometime as well as my British one.
Cheers
Chalky

Cheers Chalky, did the decals last night and had a bit of a mare with the long thin ones that go on the rear of the side. I already had them in place and when I was putting the stars on the side I must have held it by the back at one stage and the first ones had come off on my fingers and we're all twisted and folded. I managed to get them on in the end with only one tear which I was able to repair.

My next one is going to be the British Cromwell Mark IV (Tamiya). Although I live in Brisbane I am a POM, emigrating to Australia twenty and a bit years ago, but I make sure all the Aussies know where I come from

I do love the Britishness of your diorama with them having a nice cup of tea.

Post by **Augustus** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:03 am

Well my first model has come to an end. I made quite a few mistakes but have hopefully learned from them.

Here's some quick pics until I can get some decent ones.

Right, where's that Cromwell kit!

Post by **Kevthemodeller** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:58 am

Hay nice build mate, hope my fist one comes out as good when I finally get a chance to get some bench time!

Post by **Mylightweight** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:05 pm

Looks lovely, I wish my first build was this good

Post by **Augustus** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:34 am

Thought I'd add a couple with sunlight. In case you hadn't guessed yet I'm not a professional photographer!

Post by **Madmattmodels89** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:33 pm

Good job mate I really like the weathering and the attention to details!

Post by **chalkyw** » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:03 pm

Great build Augustus the sunlight pics really give a punch and show off the weathering you've done....good job and a great learning experience to move on and improve from I expect

.

Looking forward to the Cromwell as there's one waiting in my stash but not sure i'll get to it for a while as I'll be on to a Matilda for my next dio.

Cheers

Chalky