Trumpeter Challenger 2 - First scale model for over 10 years

[BrotherZaah]

Hello all,

I've decided to get back into scale modelling. Its been way over 10 years since I made a scale model, probably closer to 18 but I havn't been inactive in the miniature hobby. I have been a Games Workshop staff member and I am a commission miniature painter.

I will be linking my new website as soon as I've got my head around the coding.

Anyway, onto the model. Having had a look around on scalemates and hannants the trumpeter kit pictured below is the only "stock" Challenger 2 kit I could find. Whilst I'm aware the its not the best kit ever, I was equally certain that I didnt want to do the Tamiya desertized version, and no one does a conversion kit for the Tamiya one to change it back to normal.

The reason I want stock is because I love the profile of the un-modified challenger 2. It just looks great and the profile is spoiled by the additional armour thats been developed and added over the years. (In my opinion).



So thats the trumpeter kit and I've picked up the accurate armour upgrade kit. I'm currently pondering some Bronco tracks for it.

I want to do this right, regardless of how long it takes, to that end I havn't bought the paints for it though it'll probably get the NATO black/green.

Things I need to get:

Reference pictures for a Challenger with the black/green camo.
Photo-etch bending tool - why are these so expensive????
A track set - Bronco probably.

If anyone can reccommend a good primer that'd be good. I currently use Vallejos poly primer for the wargaming miniatures but it might gum up the very fine detail on a scale model.

Also if anyone knows the colour Challengers were primed in in the factory that'd be cool.

Thanks for reading so far I'll update as often as i can but the commission painting comes first to start with.

BZ

[Augustus]

As I am very new to this I can't answer your questions I'm afraid, but, I do look forward to watching your build as I also really like this tank.

[Kevthemodeller]

Good choice Challies are a great tank.

As for primer there're several you could go for this is dependant on what paint your intending use, I few I can think of are Ultimate, Badger, Tamiya, AK, Ammo Mig.

[BrotherZaah]

Kev- I've been reading your easy 8 thread - amazing work man! I'm thinking I'll just grab the ultimate stuff, i'm waiting for a load of stuff for them atm, for some reason paypal sent them an echeque - in the typical helpful fashion only Paypal can manage - otherwise I'd be busy trying out their airbrush thinner and cleaner tonight.

As for the paints i'll use, I'm not afraid of using any, I have the full model air and game air ranges from vallejo for the wargaming painting but as I said I want to do this 100% proper so I suppose I need to find a consensus as to who does the most accurate scale model colours. - Any help guys?

I was supposed to be going to the Bovingdon museums tank day this year but I have an interview with Spartan Games and can't make it. Was going to try and snap as many pictures of their Challenger 2 "Megatron" as possibl and hope its still painted black and green. Might just see if I can google other peoples though.

Augustus - Welcome along I'll try and update regularly but lifes in flux atm, aforementioned interview plus the commission work has to take priority.

[Kevthemodeller]

The vallejo model air is nice paint I've not used it much but when I have it's been good, I also like pazer aces . I'm a big Ammo Mig fan myself I'm not keen on Tamiya not that it's bad far from it it just smells more and you have to use the correct thinner.

I was at Bovvie a few weeks ago, the challie is still black and green.

[Kevthemodeller]

Here you go Bovvie Challie

[Eusi]

Awesome to see another miniature painter coming over to the dark side! I'm in a similar boat as you. Been painting miniatures for the last 15 years or so and got back into modeling about a year ago.

Starting out in a similar situation as yourself hopefully this helps: I haven't really found the need to invest in new paints. I've been using Vallejo air, model color and game color on all of my builds with the exception of a few tamiya paints when I'm too lazy to mix colors and would rather the best color out of the bottle. All I use is Vallejo primer, I don't find it too thick at all. I do about 1 part primer to 1 part Vallejo airbrush thinner and it goes on like a charm.

I've also started using Scale 75 paints on model builds. Fell in love with them for my miniatures and they work quite well on models as well.

The only investment I had to make when starting out was a better airbrush set up. I was using the cheap off brand ones for my figures and they weren't really cutting it for my models. So went ahead and got a couple of badger brushes and they work great. Also had to pick up oil paints for filters and pin washes. Other than that I use all the same tools I would for my mini painting.

[BrotherZaah]

Kev: Thanks so much for the reference pics

Eusi: Yeah, I like the scale 75 I use em for blending as their properties really suit that. I'm unconvinced about them through an airbrush, plus i'm not convinced of the accuracy of their colours. I want to do an outstanding job on this Model, regardless of cost and time, mainly to prove to myself that a can so I'm researching which paint manufacturers make the most accurate NATO/British paint tones. There surprisingly little solid info.

Everyone: Apologies for the delayed start to the build, I'm still waiting on my Ultimate order containing a file set to get started. Hopefully tomorrow, if not I'll message customer service

BZ

[BrotherZaah]

Hi all,

So I started my Challenger 2 (hooray!) I though I had a spare day today between commissions. So I got everything ready, sat down and started the tank.



Then this showed up at the door:



and I put the tank away again lol

So I have a completed idler wheel. not even a pair. and now it'll be at least the weekend before I get more done.

[Eusi]

I feel your pain. Haven't found time to model in almost a month. Hopefully I can find time this weekend. Been busy painting Orruks and Warhammer Quest for clients!

[BrotherZaah]

Hi all,

Huge apologies for the massive delay. I was commissioned to work in-house for Spartan Games and have been in Somerset the last few months.

As such not huge amounts have been done to the Chally, but there is some progress and some discussion to be had.



Here is what I've done so far, as you can see I bought bronco tracks as the rubber ones that come with the kit are just bad.

I am working on the top hull at the moment but have run into a problem. I'll be posting this in the relevant forum too, but heres the issue:



Thats a picture of the Accurate Armour instructions for the rear view mirror(s)

Now, aside from the fact that the tiny resin cylinder that attaches the entire thing to the hull is both fragile and entirely unsuitable for mounting anythign to anything because of it, the following questions arise.

Firstly, how do you drill something so fragile to admit the wire? no exaggeration when I say that this part is at most 1mm wide. I am no stranger to working with small parts, but as these wing mirrors are easily the most fragile part on the entire model, (being thin and sticking both outwards and upward from the hull.) then I'm coming to you guys for adviceand/or alternatives before i do something I can't undo.

Second, and probably most important (as I will need this skill for future projects) is how do I bend 2 pieces of wire to look like that, accurate armour have provided brass wire/rod which I genuinely though was antenna until I looked at the "instructions". Can anyone suggest a method for bending them both identically and in the right shape?

Also something I feel is worth asking is - is this set a typical example of accurate armours sets? As I have to say that "instructions" are terrible. 6 black and white and fuzzy photos from bad angles and incomplete. For example in the picture above at the top you can see 22+E17 except E17 is a brass etched part and as can be seen on the photo the only metal part visible is the wire for the wing mirror. This is not an isolated case.

Whilst I appreciate this is an advanced project, I genuinely feel that there is huge room for improvement and was wondering if this is just a case of the kit and the AA set being old and their newer stuff being much better.

Anyway, I am home now and cracking on with the chally, so expect more regular updates (and probably more newbie questions) especially as I bought this for after the chally:



Simply looking at the instructions for that bad boy show how far our hobby has come between the chally and now.

[chief5437]

Hey buddy, good to see you back. I've only built one AA kit, but yes, the instructions were just like yours, quite vague with poor quality images. For the price of their kits, they really need to improve in this area!

As for the mirrors, firstly I'd consider how I'm displaying the model. In most cases they are only used on public roads, when training or on ops they are usually removed. Either completely or just the mirror, leaving the stalk behind. At the very least they would be covered and lowered down. Nothing like a shiny mirror to give your position away!
That's my personal experience anyway, others may differ!

So.. If you're displaying it on deployment, you could totally omit the mirrors and stalks, and just attach the mount.

As for bending the stalks, I'd find some good pics so you have a good idea of the shape required, then bend to shape. You could try doing both side by side to get the same bends on each part. That being said, at 1/35, they aren't that prominent unless they are in the upright position.

Hope this makes sense , lol!

[BrotherZaah]

Hi everyone,

Quick update, There has been some work on Challenger, but the has also been a small tidal wave of commission work which has been taking precedence.

Chief5437 thank you so much for pointing those things out about the mirrors, I really hadnt considered that. My plan is to have the tank out on exercise or maybe a little simple KFOR diorama, I havnt decided fully yet. Anyway, thanks again for pointing that out, do you happen to know if any other parts get removed for exercises? I've had a look and a think and cant think of any but I'm open to being corrected

I will try and get some pictures up when i've done more work, as atm I've added the resin mounts for the brass skirts and some brass handles to the grid work over the engine.

As i get past the halfway mark on the build I need to start considering paints. Does anyone know whether the Brit green is the same as the green on the NATO 3 colour camo? I know we dont use the brown but do we use the same green? If it isnt the same green can anyone name the company and colour that closest matches the green we do use?

Sam

[schweinhund227]

That boxing of the Chally2 is very.... challenging, no pun intended.. lots of fit issues... Trumpeter "Zebra" boxes... are * stay away * signs for me...

what ever Trumpeter is now producing in their new white and "blue steel" boxing after 2002 are much better...
Hope you get to finish this one...if not ? there is always the Tamiya one...

Take care.

[chief5437]

Hi everyone,

Quick update, There has been some work on Challenger, but the has also been a small tidal wave of commission work which has been taking precedence.

Chief5437 thank you so much for pointing those things out about the mirrors, I really hadnt considered that. My plan is to have the tank out on exercise or maybe a little simple KFOR diorama, I havnt decided fully yet. Anyway, thanks again for pointing that out, do you happen to know if any other parts get removed for exercises? I've had a look and a think and cant think of any but I'm open to being corrected

I will try and get some pictures up when i've done more work, as atm I've added the resin mounts for the brass skirts and some brass handles to the grid work over the engine.

As i get past the halfway mark on the build I need to start considering paints. Does anyone know whether the Brit green is the same as the green on the NATO 3 colour camo? I know we dont use the brown but do we use the same green? If it isnt the same green can anyone name the company and colour that closest matches the green we do use?

Sam

Hi Sam,
You're right, Brits don't use the same green as the nato scheme. I can't remember exactly (it was just 'green' paint to me back then, lol!) but Light Brunswick green looks pretty good. That's on my iPhone though!
I'm sure there's a huge, never ending debate/argument about it online somewhere;)
As for other things to remove, the only thing I can think of are the winky pots. These would be put back on if travelling on roads though. Hth

[BrotherZaah]

That boxing of the Chally2 is very.... challenging, no pun intended.. lots of fit issues... Trumpeter "Zebra" boxes... are * stay away * signs for me...

what ever Trumpeter is now producing in their new white and "blue steel" boxing after 2002 are much better...
Hope you get to finish this one...if not ? there is always the Tamiya one...

Take care.

Don't worry, this kit will be finished The reason I got the trumpter one over the Tamiya is that the Tamiya one is the desertised version. I understand the need for all the extra armour in real life but I think it ruins the look of an otherwise cool looking tank, so that limited me to Trumpter, as I couldnt find anywhere saying that the Tamiya one comes with options to make it "stock".

Speaking of kit quality, the Meng Leopard I've picked up has recieved nothing but glowing reviews, so I'm super looking forward to it.

Hi Sam,
You're right, Brits don't use the same green as the nato scheme. I can't remember exactly (it was just 'green' paint to me back then, lol!) but Light Brunswick green looks pretty good. That's on my iPhone though!
I'm sure there's a huge, never ending debate/argument about it online somewhere;)
As for other things to remove, the only thing I can think of are the winky pots. These would be put back on if travelling on roads though. Hth

I will have a look online and see if I can find whether someones worked out what colour is closest.

Theres no great rush, I still have at least a weeks worth of wargaming commissions to get through.

Sam

[digger303]

problem I have encountered with drill such small pieces with a corresponding thin wall. As soon as you try to drill the force splits the part.
My only 2 suggestions is one try to reinforce that part with a large lump of CA glue then chip it off after or heat a piece of wire to make the hole. You have to be careful not to over heat it and ruin the part....practice first.

As to your bending problem. Bend the u shape ( use mandrel ) first, clamp that ( use Pe tool ) then bend the other angle. then cut it off to length. heat again can help. OR just use soft copper wire.

[BrotherZaah]

Hi all,

Update on some work i've done, and further comments on the build.



Aside from some glaring fit issues with the toolboxes I've all but completed the top hull now, just need to add handles to the skirts on the other side then I'm on to the turret.

Things I've learned - Accurate Armour might as well not bother putting "instructions" in their kits. a few tiny black and white fuzzy images with big thick arrows all over them just don't cut it. Further to that, theres parts on the arrow labels that aren't on the pics, and part on the pics that aren't labelled by the arrows.

Even the angles the photo are taken at are bad.

For example the side skirts. They're mounted on a resin mounting rail that runs along the bottom edge of the top hull. Spidey sense tingling with the premonition of imminent modelling faux pas, I made sure the rail ran straight, lined up perfectly. Proceeded to the next step of adding the brass skirts, and all was well until the front piece, which, as you can see in the pic above is stepped inward noticeably. this is the the cast of the mounting rail causing this, not my construction. Anyway, the point of this is that the only picture of the side skirts in the instructions shows them from perfectly straight on, making it impossible to tell if the step is meant to be there until you look at reference pictures. (it isnt and I will be fixing it tomorrow) but now I'm modifying the modification kit like some really bad case of inception.

Bearing in mind this is a modification kit that was more expensive than the model itself and that the resin casting is... mediocre at best (though I'm willing to ignore that because many of the part simply arnt there without Accurate Armours work).

So whilst I am grateful that AA have gone to the obviously considerable effort to make the kit, theres a couple of factors making me wary of getting anything else from them.

[Adie89]

Looking good so far.
To answer a few questions, challenger 2 comes olive green from the factory with black stripes over the top. Very few have the black stripes anymore they're plain green now.
As for wanting to build a non operational CR2, I am building a Tamiya desertised version and the detail is so good that if you simply omitted the extra armour packs and fitted your brass skirting plates it would be dead on. The kit comes with normal exhaust outlets so the exhaust cowls, the long boxes, can be omitted and the detail under the nose cone is correct if you leave it off. The turret is exactly the same you just leave the thermal marker panels off. All the detail you have added from AA is already there except for the tow rope brackets, the ends and the wire are included though.
You indicator clusters that you have should be on a wedge holding them parallel to the ground not the slope of the armour, the little round bits on the inside of the mirrors before the fire extinguishers.
Hope this helps, oh and be careful which pictures you use from Bovington of CR2, they only have one production model and its in a field, the rest are prototypes mainly on a CR1 chassis
If you wanted to do the KFOR diorama, they would have had he extra armour