it's all in a picture

Post by **Tiger131** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:12 pm

just been thinking about a future sig..and while it in my head thought i would let you lot think it through..any scale and model and topic as long as there is a photo to copy from so there it is lads cheers muckers

Post by **DC87** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:22 pm

Sounds like a good idea provided we don't force people to make an exact replica of the picture or judge on that requirement. The way McLeod is doing the WOT GB would be the way to go whereby it needs to be based on something but doesn't have to be perfectly exact.

Post by **schweinhund227** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:40 pm

I want exactness

LOL

being a JackAsster !

The picture / Model idea is pretty cool ! great idea buddy !

Post by **Tiger131** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:43 pm

cheers lads i think closer to the picture the better of course the dio/background could be less than perfect..but it's just an idea

Post by **schweinhund227** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:46 pm

Tiger131 wrote:cheers lads i think closer to the picture the better of course the dio/background could be less than perfect..but it's just an idea

you are on something here dude !
keep the idea going... i'm sure others will join you !

Post by **wappynutter** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:18 pm

Hmmm, I think Mr Hamilkar Barkas just completed his WW2 GB and did a similar thing whereas he took his diorama and based it on a picture he had in a book.
I suppose you could widen the build to include all subjects Sci-fi, WW2, WW1, Modern armour ie: Afgan/Iraq/Africa etc.., All wars even if a picture exists.
How about movie scenes? Get a screen grab and go? Alien, Batman, Fast and Furious, Commando, Die Hard.... the list could be endless....
... as long as an image was present and the model and dio matched it.

Post by **DC87** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:26 pm

If it included box art I would be very up for it

Post by **HobbyModeller** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:01 pm

Sounds pretty interesting especially as you could find a photo of a model you've already bought (should be a few as the company uses them for reference) that would mean not having to buy more kits !!

Post by **Radzy** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:37 pm

Ha, I was just about to propose the new SiG with the same subject called "Been there, seen that"

It's a very good subject - to depict the photo. But I would rather opt for being as accurate as possible. However taking into consideration what DC said - let's not make it the decission maker for winning contest. It's just to, you know, keep us from making a model only

Post by **Daishi12** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:08 pm

Think it's a superb idea, I have seen a picture of a F9F Panther which looked like it was left in a ghetto

Post by **Tiger131** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:11 pm

i was thinking photo's ive got some books with pictures a plenty black and white and colour and i sure that most modelers have reference books they use for this hobby planes and armour

if it could be a prize winning sig or not i would like to have a go...its up too the powers that be...

Website · Post by **Gav0909** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:54 pm

I think at somepoint we should hold a sig that is perhaps more based on the modelling ability/exactness/accuracy whatever you want to call it. I fully support and understand the reasons for generality in things like that to allow people of all ability the same chance at a prize, but since a GB or SIG is entirely voluntary I don't see why a Sig couldn't be done where the judging was done on ability.

I for one would have no qualms about attempting to build something based on a real photo and for my entry to be judged on how close my model ended up to the photo. If your unsure of whether you can handle having your work judged in such a way then you don't enter. It would be a Sig for that reason, I think Sigs could well have more stringent criteria in the judging for any potential prizes.

Post by **Lee** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:52 pm

The majority of SiGs are to be proposed by you, the members. You can all agree on your own rules be they what they may, as long as you all agree at the outset, as once they are set they can't be changed.

You can have any subject you like and any rules you like. If you want a SiG propose one and put a poll up - simples. It's your forum guys. Once agreed we'll set it up for you.

Only thing I would say is we don't want too many going on at the same time as its easy to become swamped.

Go for it

PS... I would love to have a crack at this....

Website · Post by **Gav0909** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:58 pm

Did you not buy the truck for that already Lee?

Post by **HobbyModeller** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:10 am

If this was to go ahead there could be the usual 'best build/thread' prize and a 'most accurate/realistic' prize ... that would mean people who wanted to go to town with it could with the motivation of winning but it wouldn't rule out people like me who don't want to super detail or anything could too!? This is all hypothetical of course... and IF there were to be prizes

Post by **Lee** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:15 am

Gav0909 wrote:Did you not buy the truck for that already Lee?

No, didn't get hold of one in the end!

Post by **chief5437** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:10 am

I was thinking along the same lines, but scenes or subjects from movies. Not necessarily photo-realistic, just enough to say 'that's a black hawk from black hawk down' sort of thing.

Anyway, they're all ideas for the bank, eh?

Gavs idea about the accuracy SIG is a good one, but wouldn't we need a judge with explicit subject knowledge?

Post by **chief5437** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:11 am

Lee wrote:
Gav0909 wrote:Did you not buy the truck for that already Lee?
No, didn't get hold of one in the end!

I tried!

Post by **Coen** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:33 am

chief5437 wrote:Gavs idea about the accuracy SIG is a good one, but wouldn't we need a judge with explicit subject knowledge?

I'd say that the simple fact that you're modelling from a photograph or a series of photos of a subject would fill the accuracy bill.
Two SIGs in one.

More that 3/4 of my armour are built from photos... it's not and easy thing to do, especially when you have only one photo to go on, it's 70 years old, black and white, and shot by an amateur with a crappy camera. But that's just one example of modelling from a photo.

You can do a diorama of the Adams Family from a poster, you could do a screen shot of an Eagle from Space 1999 landing on an alien world and model that.
The possibilities are endless, so finding and expert is reduced to someone who is able to look at the photo then at the model and say... "yup they're the same" or "Nope not even close"
You wouldn't even have to know what you were looking at. As long as you can see differences you're good.

I think that this is a spectacular idea.

If you're talking about doing a rivet counter SIG... well that's a different thing all together and I think that only a few members would feel comfortable signing on to that one.
I've done those, they can be intimidating, even in our atmosphere on ISM.
In that type of SIG judging would be extremely hard.

Post by **chief5437** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:56 am

Good point Coen, I guess that's what I was thinking about the movie scene thing.

Can't believe you're bottling out of a rivet counting GB! Lol, just kidding, please don't challenge me!!!

Post by **Coen** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:10 am

haha... as long as you don't challenge me Haha.
I wasn't saying that I wouldn't join one, I'd have to think pretty hard about what I'd enter.
I was more on about how hard it would be to judge.

Post by **Tiger131** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:55 am

well it sounds like you lot like it ive got a big day coming the end of the month then two weeks away so perhaps some time in the nov or the new year if pos..i will start looking through the books now and coen thats one cool picture..i would go for accuracy to a point dont need to get the magnifiers out but as close as you can

Website · Post by **Gav0909** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:00 am

No I think you misunderstand me. There is a difference between being a rivet counter and wanting to make a model as accurate as you can.

In the end we do this hobby to get the best results we can with our models, this is clear by the fact that very few people I notice are ever 100% happy with a build once its done, they can always identify areas for improvement. What I was suggesting was that at somepoint for a SIG it might be good to have it where the judging, if there is any, is based not on thread content in terms of history, updates etc as is the current format, but purely on the quality of the final result. Painting/modelling competitions have been run like that for years. And yes it might mean some people are left out because they don't feel they have a chance of winning, but in the end joining in a SIG is voluntary, if you don't want too, fine, but you would have the chance to join if you wished, so nobody is actually being left out as a result of the SIG criteria.

Just a thought for the future. I would love to enter a model in such a thing and have it judged against the work of my peers, yes I wouldn't hold out hope of winning, but if anything it would give me a scale to compare against, allowing me to improve my own modelling. And don't we all want to improve in some way or another?

Post by **chief5437** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:27 am

Ah, yes, I see what you're getting at now. I agree. Not sure I'd have the balls to enter though! Depends on the subject matter I guess.

Good idea!

Website · Post by **Gav0909** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:40 am

Its not about having the balls to enter, its about being able to take the "criticism" that is possibly not winning. If you don't a win a competition where the judging was based on the quality of the final result then logic dictates that your entry was not of suitable quality to win.

That's what scares people about entering these things. Frankly I would use such things as a learning exercise. If I won, great, if not then I look at what made the winning entry better than mine, and I try to learn from that.

Post by **chief5437** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:17 pm

I'd probably enter anyway, I wouldn't be upset if I didn't win. No matter how good you are at something, there is always someone better round the corner. Every kit is just practice for the next one!

Website · Post by **Gav0909** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:18 pm

Well exactly. Plus, if you hold reservations about how good your ability is compared to someone else's, the only way you will ever realise that in actual fact its probably not nearly as bad as you think is to enter it into competitions etc.

Post by **Tiger131** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:28 pm

there is always some one better than you/I but he had to get there the same way that we do he learnt and i have learnt so much from sites like this and still learning so much more..so lets just build and have fun doing it...now back to looking for pictures

Post by **chief5437** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:31 pm

God, you only need to tell us once, Tiger! Lol!!!

Post by **chief5437** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:32 pm

Oh! There were two post a min ago?! My bad!

Post by **Tiger131** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:35 pm

you were'nt seeing things dont know what happened there bud whoopsie

Post by **Coen** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:18 pm

I think that the combination of Tiger's photo SIG and Gav's detail SIG is a tempting idea.
It would certainly play well off of each other nicely. If you split it into Novice, Intermediate, and Advanced categories it might be less intimidating and allow everyone a chance to enter into their skill set. Tiger's photo challenge presents an excellent setting for it.
I would be interested in entering something like that... but just for the fun of it. I like to push my skills.

It would also allow it to be peer judged since the criteria for winning is the closest match to the photo. So anyone can judge.
It also mean you can use any photo... cause we all have eyes... I think. haha.

Website · Post by **Gav0909** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:23 pm

If this goes ahead sometime I already have a picture in mind.

Saw this linked on Facebook earlier.

Although the very idea of "ze Germans" defacing one of our graceful, beautiful and deadly Spitfires by removing her guns and sticking one of their own engines in it appalls me

. Its clearly a very interesting thing to try and model!

Post by **Nige201980** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:52 pm

Coen wrote:I think that the combination of Tiger's photo SIG and Gav's detail SIG is a tempting idea.
It would certainly play well off of each other nicely. If you split it into Novice, Intermediate, and Advanced categories it might be less intimidating and allow everyone a chance to enter into their skill set. Tiger's photo challenge presents an excellent setting for it.
I would be interested in entering something like that... but just for the fun of it. I like to push my skills.

It would also allow it to be peer judged since the criteria for winning is the closest match to the photo. So anyone can judge.
It also mean you can use any photo... cause we all have eyes... I think. haha.

That sounds an interesting idea about the beginner, intermediate and advance but how would we decide who is in which category?

What about brush painted and airbrush painted. Just an idea.

Website · Post by **Gav0909** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:54 pm

Category could be decided by what the entrant feels like. If you feel your work is best judged at a level you feel could be termed "Novice" go with that, same with the others.

Post by **Lee** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:03 pm

Problem with having so many categories is that you have a chance of over complicating it and there will always be some one in the wrong category, people mention that fact then it turns into a bit discussion and basically snowballs from there etc etc etc - Seen it a million times!

You're better off having a Picture SiG whereby the closest representation of the picture wins - simple as. You could even open it up and have a members poll to decide

If you want to go for a pure historical accuracy SiG, you could do that but, it would be hard to find a judge that would know so much about a lot of different subjects. You would need to find an expert on one subject and all build the very same subject. If that were the case though and you're all sharing your builds as you go there will not be a lot of difference at the end because you've all picked up all the info from the other threads, kind of defeats the object really. Your best bet would be to do a SiG on pure modelling prowess alone so, whoever builds the best model wins - simples

Website · Post by **Gav0909** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:15 pm

Well that's what I would quite like, at somepoint. A SIG as you say Lee that is just "build the best model you can". With the limitations being say it has to be a 1/35 tank, or it has to be a 1/48 aircraft. And yes that means people might not be able to enter, but sometimes a SIG should be that specific, the main GBs are the general ones, I see no reason for a SIG not to be as specific as "best 1/48 jet aircraft" for example.

Post by **Tiger131** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:42 pm

lee you have summed up what i started with picture sig as close as you can get to the picture nice and simple go as detailed as you want...up to you how much you money you throw at the project

cheers john

Post by **Schoof** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:22 am

Wow i like the idea and would like to enter this ( if it happens ) ...but......

1 question first.......... whats the diverence between a GB (group Build ... that i know ) and a SIG ????

Post by **Nige201980** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:17 am

SIG special interest group. Its more specialised group build i think you pick one subject ie WWII armour or British armour or even just the a Spitfire SIG. But don't quote me

Post by **Tiger131** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:04 pm

i would go with WWII armour all day