Alied Vs. Axis

[Schoof]

Is it just me or do the Axis ( germans ) Forces of WW 2 just have more...uhm .... karakter in the Tanks ???

If i got to choose between a German tank or an Alied tank the Germans would win every time !

[Gav0909]

Yeah generally speaking British and American tanks in WW2 were mediocre. It wasn't even in the tank design as such, more the guns. The Germans had very very good tank guns compared to the British pea-shooters. They were often of a higher velocity as well which meant that even if they were the same calibre, they fired their shells with more energy. The Sherman 75mm gun for example, not bad, but it was low velocity, therefore compared to the PzIV 75mm which was higher velocity, it wasn't as good.

Shermans were also tall, and while generally mechanically reliable, due to where the ammo was stored (in the hull sides) they had a tendancy to go "boom" very quickly if hit there. Eventually they learned, and wet stowage came around to help stop ammo catching fire so easily, and higher velocity guns came about.

Although I think the British Cromwell has a good bit of character about it. Yes it was relatively pants in a straight up fight, even against PzVI's, but it was sleek, it was fast and looked good. And once they added the 17pdr to it, it became pretty deadly as well.

[Lee]

German AFVs were just sexier is all

[HamilkarBarkas]

Just look at this thing, no one can be serious if he says "i don´t like the look of it"


Now take a look at this pile of **** - nuff said.


I admit that i picked two extreme examples, but sure in the end thats the reason why German tanks are so much more interesting (their shape and engineering simply gets me again and again).


Not to forget the fellows who drove them into battle, their "hero-level" is hard to beat which makes these machines even more interesting. My interests might be a bit one-sided, but are there any Allied tank aces which deserve the title compared to their German counterparts?

Furthermore you have so many versions and types among German tanks, its hard to know them all and choose a kit from the vast numbers of kits available. On the Allied side the choice is not bad, but not as big. You can build a couple of Shermans, maybe a Crommwell, Crusader and a Churchill and then you have the main Allied tanks in your collection. Try that with German tanks, they all differ a lot and will give you decades of collecting and building fun.

Another big personal aspect for me is the fact that i am German, so my background makes them even more attractive for me (apart from the Tiger tanks of course hehe!).

[Schoof]

JAWOHL Herr oberst.......


But seriously about the tank heroes. ..... there are Allied counterparts though not many but j just read this. ..
http://www.3ad.com/history/wwll/pool.pa ... ournal.htm




P.s. I share your background. ...... well halve.

[HamilkarBarkas]

I see, too bad he is not that well known! Its a shame.

There was a French guy who went on a famous "rampage" in 1940 aswell with his Char B1, i just can´t recall the name of him right now. This was pretty impressive aswell, a bit like Wittmann 4 years later. However, when i think of Wittmann, Carius, Knispel, Kröner and Barkmann that feels much different. Sure we still have a certain image of them due to the propaganda, but the Allied had this kind of propaganda on war heroes aswell. Whether this is right or not to see them as "war heroes" is another question i assume, i´d say i respect the effort of every man who was there, most of them had no choice anyway and did what they had to.

[5Craven]

Interesting you chose a picture of a Matilda I for the allied tank. It was this type of tank that spearheaded the Arras counter attack against Rommels 'Ghost Division' and although the attack was defeated it so worried the German high command they ordered the infamous 'Stop Order' giving the British just enough time to evacuate the BEF from Dunkirk.

When looked at in that light the Matilda I has a claim to be possibly the most important British tank of WWII.

[Paul]

German armor is just awesome, end of.

[Rob]

Now, this is an awesome allied tank...

[spruecutter]

When I see a picture of a Tiger and many other German tanks - I think the word 'purposeful' comes to mind, something shared with many Russian tanks too. Whereas I don't get the same impression with much of the allied tanks. They have an industrial, mechanical appeal of their own, like the Churchill or Matilda, but without the visual impact of some German designs, like the Tiger - that ironically was two different design ideas come together - the turret from one source and the hull from another, and yet together they look like they were created as one, and give the tank a look of menace and awesome power.
The crudeness of industrial mass production would seem to be more apparent in the allied approach whereas a more refined, specialised precision engineering is displayed in the other, although not without exceptions. We all know which proved most successful, if not by sheer weight of numbers than anything else. But a good design has a lasting appeal, even once the original purpose has long been surpassed.

Or put another way it's like what Paul said

[Andyman23]

We were just too busy building Liberty ships every 10 minutes to design cooler tanks

I agree with a lot of you guys - German tanks are just pure pieces of engineering art and simultaneously beautiful and horrifyingly scary. And there's nothing like reading a story about a battalion of Tigers being charged by dozens and dozens of T-34s, and battles like Prokhorovka during Kursk with the big German cats going up against the Soviet tanks...it just stirs the imagination and gives you goosebumps thinking about the massive struggles.

[Gav0909]

I guess the reason German vehicles "look better" is that they were designed to be very very efficient at one thing....killing other tanks. Allied tanks were designed to be "disposable" to a degree (certainly the Sherman) and were always designed to be used in numbers. What didn't help was that British tank design was heavily influenced by outdated cavalry tactics, using the tanks to support infantry. Whereas the Germans designed their tanks to operate as their own entity.

German tanks suffered from being over-engineered, which led to slow production times, unreliability in some cases. Also the need to ever change the design to something bigger.

The Allies got one design which worked quite well and just stuck with it. And when it became outdated, instead of building something completely new, they adapted what they had (think the Sherman 105, Sherman 76mm, Sherman Firefly). Whereas the Germans went through the PzI, PzII, PzIII, PzIV, PzV, PzVI. The British loved the light weight, relatively lightly armed cruiser tanks, which relied on their speed to get them out of trouble rather than the ability to actually take some punishment. Whereas most German tanks were heavier, slower and able to dish out, and absorb more punishment, and this showed itself in their design/appearance.

[Daimyo]

I agree 100% german tanks win against any other tank of WWII by the way they look and most of them by design and overall statistics. But what about air force? (if it is still on topic) I think luftwaffe dont have such advantage against RAF or US air force. There were lots of great planes on both sides. For me the best looking airplanes of that period were B-17s, the fighters - Me109; Fw190; Mustangs. But yeah, on the ground germans ruled.

[ridgers22]

daimyo... you forgot the spitfire! still one of the most beautiful planes to look at

[HamilkarBarkas]

Did i just hear "awesome aircraft"?

[ridgers22]

Did i just hear "awesome aircraft"?

yes the lancaster was an awesome aircraft

[HamilkarBarkas]

yes the lancaster was an awesome aircraft

indeed

If there is one aircraft i do not like it must be the Lanc. All others are cool

[Schoof]

Guys , Guys ...... dont start a (flame)war over this

[Colin]

No flames, but I lived in Germany for three years of my life and you can almost smell efficiency there in engineering and even life outlook of life of locals between 1972-75 and dare I say even fun too ... been back for a couple of beer festivals in later life and I think they have got drinking culture nailed too.

I think their efficiency has improved since then ... BMW, Mercedes ETC.

Apparently Germanys economy is one of the strongest in Europe just now ... and I certainly dont want any politics here ... I'm just saying!

All arguments aside, its remarkable what Germany did in such a short period of time for us to model so enthusiastically decades and decades later both on ground and in air especially subjects from their history.

They were way ahead of their time in WW2.

Flying Wings anyone?

[gosselin2112]

This is a cool thread and I have enjoyed the commentary.

Russ

[JayCub]

Typical people remember BMW and Mercedes but what about VW Audi nicely put by Colin, i worked for a VW garage and you can tell German quality and efficiency, and the German tanks are just sexier

[SuperDryBeef]

also work with ships

Bismarck Class



Vs

Nelson class



Ofc the hood was a great looking ship but the rodney and the nelson have to be some of the most ugliest ship I have ever seen, and the Americans have ugly ship too especially their new modern zumwalt class destroyer.

[Lee]

Looks more like a submarine!

[Paul]

I think it looks like it's upside down lol

[Lee]

It doesn't know what it is!

It says it's a giraffe in the instruction manual...!!!

[Paul]

It doesn't know what it is!

It says it's a giraffe in the instruction manual...!!!

Lol

[Gav0909]

Yeah Bismarck might have looked good, but don't forget it only took one brave British pilot in an outdated, slow, bi-plane with a single torpedo to render her more or less useless.

Don't mess with British men in sheds!

[Paul]

Yeah Bismarck might have looked good, but don't forget it only took one brave British pilot in an outdated, slow, bi-plane with a single torpedo to render her more or less useless.

Don't mess with English men in sheds!

Yeah you tell em Gav

[HamilkarBarkas]

If thats the only thing i´m okay with that.

[Dunhill2005]

It also need only one German tank crew to stop an entire British armored brigade. Wittman
JOKE!!!!!

[UKscalemodeller]

It also need only one German tank crew to stop an entire British armored brigade. Wittman
JOKE!!!!!

I know I'm british but, true!

[SuperDryBeef]

Yeah Bismarck might have looked good, but don't forget it only took one brave British pilot in an outdated, slow, bi-plane with a single torpedo to render her more or less useless.

Don't mess with British men in sheds!

same guys who almost sunk the H.M.S Sheffield a couple hours before...

[HamilkarBarkas]

same guys who almost sunk the H.M.S Sheffield a couple hours before...

Dang!

[schweinhund227]

yeah.. Neat post ! Since the Tanks in Germany were locally manufactured... and not shipped by sea!
Nothing much could pose a problem in making the largest machines...

as in the Allied side of things...

supposedly..? the Harbor Cranes limitations of the time !! limited Tanks to be roughly 34tons max..
(Arbitrary tonnage number) didn't verify this before typing it...

and its true..... German Tanks do have an Eye Candy appeal !
I'm not an Allies Tank luver ... althou the late Sherman are cool ... but I am pushing it ! LOL

Just like the Russian heavies... they look so mean !

[HamilkarBarkas]

Proof that a Sherman CAN look pretty nice actually, but the German tanker looks a bit "underdressed" in this thing

[schweinhund227]

Good one !

[HamilkarBarkas]

meet the moveable wheel chock for German tanks:



As this tread also deals with the Axis in general we have to take into account that Italian tanks were...how shall i put this

[Paul]

meet the moveable wheel chock for German tanks:



As this tread also deals with the Axis in general we have to take into account that Italian tanks were...how shall i put this

I've seen 1/6th rc tigers bigger than that lol

[generalgrog]

To be honest, I prefer modelling U.S.A. subjects, well... probably because I'm, 'merican, and my Grandpa was a sherman tank commander in WWII.

I agree that the German tanks have certain appeal to them from a design/looks aspect, and of course, most of them were superior to allied tanks, but don't we need to remember that the Germans in the early 1930's got a good head start on everyone else due to the build up for war.

I mean especially the Americans, who really were not eager to get involved, didn't really start waking up until the late 30's?

I personally think the Grants, Stuarts, and Shermans have a lot of character, even though they were built for numbers rather than their "killyness".

GG