Harder & Steenbeck Evolution troubles

[digger303]

After only a few hrs actual spray time , but maybe 6 months actual. The new super doopper triple seal up grade failed. The seals shrank and leaked paint around the edges as well as up the stem of the needle. In my mind even though I have heard them say some where that the seals should be replaced every 6 months I think that is sub standard. I wouldn't have used the brush more than 2 or 3 hrs tops. My personal opinion is the seals should be fabricated from nitrile not Teflon. It is way more inert and resilient. You can see from the pic how much these seals actually shrank....amazing.
Not to mention the 30 bucks a year for 6 little seals not worth more than 10 cents

[bfrd]

Mine lasted way longer than that. It looks like they reacted to something.

[Twokidsnosleep]

Never leave any lacquer thinner cleaner in the airbrush as residue will kill the seals
I always spray out with my acrylic airbrush cleaner as a final step even if it is a lacquer designated airbrush
Then I prime the airbrush and test it’s spray pattern with the paint appropriate diluent immediately before adding the paint

Just my $.02

[matto21]

That's unfortunate! I've just bought a H&S airbrush myself (not used yet) so I'll be keeping an eye out once I do!

[digger303]

Never leave any lacquer thinner cleaner in the airbrush as residue will kill the seals
I always spray out with my acrylic airbrush cleaner as a final step even if it is a lacquer designated airbrush
Then I prime the airbrush and test it’s spray pattern with the paint appropriate diluent immediately before adding the paint

Just my $.02

I do the same yet it still happened. I will admit to not stripping my brush every day, but I used the blow back method until the thinner was clear then ran some ultimate cleaner through it.

[Kevthemodeller]

All very odd and they appear to have changed colour

I've had the same seals in my two H&S since I bought them one is about 4 yes old the other 2. I use both water/alcohol based acrylics, lacquers and metal finish paint. I use Tamiya, Mr Hobby, AK Extreme, Cellulose thinners and Mr Tool cleaner, I always back flush and leave a small amount of cleaner in the cup. I only strip the brush after completing a kit and use Badger needle juice for lub.

I've never had any issues with mine

[digger303]

All very odd and they appear to have changed colour

I've had the same seals in my two H&S since I bought them one is about 4 yes old the other 2. I use both water/alcohol based acrylics, lacquers and metal finish paint. I use Tamiya, Mr Hobby, AK Extreme, Cellulose thinners and Mr Tool cleaner, I always back flush and leave a small amount of cleaner in the cup. I only strip the brush after completing a kit and use Badger needle juice for lub.

I've never had any issues with mine

I'v used your method many times except I cannot always leave a small amount of cleaner in the cup. If left for extended periods in just evaporates in this climate. So your comments of not changing the seal in 4 yrs perplex me given my experience. The seals turning green is perhaps just a paint stain. Even when new seal are installed the needle slips through the seal almost like they have made the hole too big even with 3 seals . I'm going to my favorite industrial seal supplier tomorrow to see if he can supply a better seal. He was most helpful the last time I needed viton o rings for my Paarsch.

[Kevthemodeller]

I'v used your method many times except I cannot always leave a small amount of cleaner in the cup. If left for extended periods in just evaporates in this climate. So your comments of not changing the seal in 4 yrs perplex me given my experience. The seals turning green is perhaps just a paint stain. Even when new seal are installed the needle slips through the seal almost like they have made the hole too big even with 3 seals . I'm going to my favorite industrial seal supplier tomorrow to see if he can supply a better seal. He was most helpful the last time I needed viton o rings for my Paarsch.

As far as I'm aware and in my experience when when PTFE comes into contact with solvents at worst they expand and soften they don't shrink. Those solvents have been way, way more volatile than any standard cleaner/thinner we'd be using, which is why H&S use them. If anything they are so robust they wear like bearings i.e. the needle enlarges the hole, which yours appear to suffered. This is easily sorted by slight adjustment (tightening) of the packing screw. Have you tried this? It can be done with a quality standard screwdriver but be careful the screw is brass and soft, H&S do a special tool.

The latter I had to do a few times when I used Iwata super lub, which dries out almost over night and forms a sticky paste, horrible stuff. Since using Bager needle juice no such problems, one application last many cleans. But even that was after a lot of use, PTFE is self lubing it's one of its properties as is solvent resistance.

I'm also very puzzled by the change in colour, again PTFE isn't porous.

I'd be inclined to contact H&S and see what they have to say, something isn't right and I'm sure they'd like to know or already do know.

[digger303]

I'v used your method many times except I cannot always leave a small amount of cleaner in the cup. If left for extended periods in just evaporates in this climate. So your comments of not changing the seal in 4 yrs perplex me given my experience. The seals turning green is perhaps just a paint stain. Even when new seal are installed the needle slips through the seal almost like they have made the hole too big even with 3 seals . I'm going to my favorite industrial seal supplier tomorrow to see if he can supply a better seal. He was most helpful the last time I needed viton o rings for my Paarsch.

As far as I'm aware and in my experience when when PTFE comes into contact with solvents at worst they expand and soften they don't shrink. Those solvents have been way, way more volatile than any standard cleaner/thinner we'd be using, which is why H&S use them. If anything they are so robust they wear like bearings i.e. the needle enlarges the hole, which yours appear to suffered. This is easily sorted by slight adjustment (tightening) of the packing screw. Have you tried this? It can be done with a quality standard screwdriver but be careful the screw is brass and soft, H&S do a special tool.

The latter I had to do a few times when I used Iwata super lub, which dries out almost over night and forms a sticky paste, horrible stuff. Since using Bager needle juice no such problems, one application last many cleans. But even that was after a lot of use, PTFE is self lubing it's one of its properties as is solvent resistance.

I'm also very puzzled by the change in colour, again PTFE isn't porous.

I'd be inclined to contact H&S and see what they have to say, something isn't right and I'm sure they'd like to know or already do know.

I did via there site and I'v had nothing. It appears to be shut down.
I tried adjusting the packing screw and to no avail and I'm using the special screw driver so I don't muck it up. The whole seal has shrunk in from all directions leaving the centre hole larger and the out side circumference smaller and they have gone hard ish....dried out. To me that's the lacquer thinner attacking it.
I do use the needle juice after a full strip down.


Ps. Those seals might be a type of PTFE that isn't 100 or even 90% resilient which is why they say change every 6 months. I 'v got viton seals in my chemical sprayer and that comes into contact with some pretty nasty stuff and those seals last years and years.

[Kevthemodeller]

All very odd mate.

The seal on the back of the nozzle is the same stuff, I often just leave my spare .2/4 in Mr Tool, Mr Hobby lacquer thinners both types and at times cellulose thinners for days at a time, still using same seals never changed.

Is there not an main dealer or importer of H&S in Oz?

Try contacting Paul at Modelling Tools

He sells and deals with H&S and he's a very helpful chap.

[digger303]

All very odd mate.

The seal on the back of the nozzle is the same stuff, I often just leave my spare .2/4 in Mr Tool, Mr Hobby lacquer thinners both types and at times cellulose thinners for days at a time, still using same seals never changed.

Is there not an main dealer or importer of H&S in Oz?

Try contacting Paul at Modelling Tools

He sells and deals with H&S and he's a very helpful chap.

Ok I have just sent Paul a email as you suggested.

[onemac]

Wow, that's a fair mess of those seals. I suspect a bad batch as they should be resistant to lacquers (paint or thinners). Contact H&S about this and see what they say.

I use lacquer thinner (the cheap rough stuff) to clean all my airbrushes but you always, always have to clean and backflush with a good airbrush cleaner afterwards (Ultimate) to neutralise the lacquer thinner. Then I add a few drops of Ultimate thinner and spray some through until the next use. Remember to flush the thinner out before you use the brush and just as a precaution spray some good (Tamiya or MLT) lacquer thinner through if you're going to use lacquer paints. No need of course if you're using acrylics because you've already sprayed through the thinner sitting in the brush and then once a month a deep clean using Regdab to lube the needle/seals and you're good to go.

Let us know how you get on with these new seals and fingers crossed it doesn't happen again.

[digger303]

Wow, that's a fair mess of those seals. I suspect a bad batch as they should be resistant to lacquers (paint or thinners). Contact H&S about this and see what they say.

I use lacquer thinner (the cheap rough stuff) to clean all my airbrushes but you always, always have to clean and backflush with a good airbrush cleaner afterwards (Ultimate) to neutralise the lacquer thinner. Then I add a few drops of Ultimate thinner and spray some through until the next use. Remember to flush the thinner out before you use the brush and just as a precaution spray some good (Tamiya or MLT) lacquer thinner through if you're going to use lacquer paints. No need of course if you're using acrylics because you've already sprayed through the thinner sitting in the brush and then once a month a deep clean using Regdab to lube the needle/seals and you're good to go.

Let us know how you get on with these new seals and fingers crossed it doesn't happen again.

That's what I do usually.
Contacted Paul, but no response just yet. Only been a day.
Visited my industrial guy today and he just couldn't get a seal to fit the needle properly.
So looks like I'm stuck with persevering with H&S.
Thanks guys