Global Scale Modeller

OK guys, Paul and I have an announcement to make regarding Ultimate Modelling Products and ourselves...

As a more than a few of you have probably guessed already, Paul and I are the owners of Ultimate....

We started toying with the idea of making our own products due to not being happy with what was available at the time, we thought we could do better given enough time and resources and Ultimate was born. The name Ultimate is deliberate as we did not want to release anything unless we thought it was the best you could get and at the very best price. We think we have managed to do that so far!

Some of you may think that we've been underhand about how we've introduced Ultimate and promoted the products, we haven't! We had to keep it quiet it was us for a couple of reasons, one of them personal that I won't go into and another we can't talk about for legal reasons, I wish I could as you would understand our reasoning. We made the decision early to keep quiet initially and then see how things went in the first month. We really shouldn't be saying anything now, but we felt it only right for you, our members, to know as we did not want you guys to feel like we've deliberately set out to deceive, as this is most definitely not the case.

We have worked on the Ultimate products for quite a while now perfecting and honing them to get them to a position where we are happy to put our names behind the brand. We have not tried to deceive anyone as Paul and I are 110% behind our products and if they were made by any one else we would be saying exactly the same things about them as we do now. The Thinner, in my opinion, is the best in the world at this moment in time, no other can claim to work with EVERY single acrylic modellers paint out there, ours does. Our airbrush cleaner works with every acrylic paint and airbrush manufacturer bar none. We have worked on our sanders to make them feel the very best they can in a modellers hand and to try to make every square cm of one be useful and not wasted. Our washes are not the same as he who shall not be mentioned, they are very different, they may work in a similar way, but the outcome is definitely and deliberately different.

We sent out samples to several well none modellers to test and try out, you've probably see their youtube vids, we did not tell them it was us and we asked them to be totally honest about them. We said that we had been supplied many test samples to hand out from Ultimate and for those guys to say what they think about them. This way we did not compromise our or the guys testing the products integrity one iota. To say we were blown away by the comments from every one is an understatement and we hope to bring more products to the hobby over the next year.

Anyways, we thought it was time to let people know what the score is as we do not want to be seen as trying to deceive or just to be in it for the money, we are not, as this forum is testament to. We wanted ISM members to know and understand about Ultimate before it went any further and we hope you understand our reasons, even if we can't talk about them just yet

If you have any questions at all about Ultimate then please feel free to ask or want to share your feelings then please do so.

Thank you (in advance) for your understanding....

Lee & Paul

Well done Lee and Paul, man your lives must be busy with all that your giving this hobby.

I was on the fence about buying the stuff but now I'm going to need another man cave to store all the Ultimate stuff I will hopefully purchase.

I wish yourselves and ultimate every success

WOW Lee and Paul from all account your on to a winner lads all the best with this venture and i for one total understand where you are coming from just keep it up lol.

Oh and the forum is THE place to be so thanks for that.

Sorry to post again but are you planning a website for Ultimate to explain each product and post the how to vids etc or is one live already?

I now feel bad about not doing a review on them yet. That said I haven't painted anything since they arrived.

I don't feel decieved at all (though I was starting to think they had you on a retainer!!! )

If I get time to work on anything soon I'll give you my honest opinion on them.

Wish I had the balls to start something like Ultimate.

Haven't read more then the first 4 lines but. ....


Whahahahaha Whahahahaha Whahahahaha Whahahahaha I KNEW IT

I have, just this last week, purchased the sanding sticks and the Ultimate thinners from Emodels last week and I was very impressed by them...both the quality and the presentation are superb. Obviously I had no inkling as to who was behind this venture at the time, the demos and the accolades from so many others sold them to me quite easily and I am doubly pleased at both the items purchased and the knowledge we now have as to who Ultimate really are.

I do not think for one minute that anything underhand or deceptive has been done as the product does exactly what is claimed and more and I am very happy with everything. Any new venture in this day and age has to be a bit of a gamble and I am very pleased for you both in the way the success has evolved in this enterprise of yours.

You are modellers bringing the right tools to modellers and not some back street entrepreneurs trying to make a quick buck and I applaud you both for your hard work and honesty....long may Ultimate reign and I look forward to seeing what else is in the near future.

Well done both.

Brian

Lee, Paul and Ultimate get a big thumbs are from me. Products and customer service is the best.

Well done to you both lads. I'm sure your on to a winner with Ultimate, although I've not got much airbrush experience the cleaner and thinner works for me. It might a tricky balance for you running a free and open forum were members can talk about other products on the market, while you've got a business (Ultimate) to promote. Having said that if your products continue to be as good as they are and priced right, they will obviously sell themselves.
Anyway, hats off to you chaps.....



Tim

I havent bought any of the products yet but its on the shopping list but Big congratz to you guys for whats seems like some awesome products.

Knowing your attitude towards users on the forum I can imagine the support for the products will be awesome so Keep going strong guys. You rule

Guys, brilliant!!!

Don't get me wrong, I think there's a lot of people on the forum that had you sussed from the start and I almost sent you both a PM when I was trying to work out how to ship the thinner and cleaner to Canada (thanks for the UN ref by the way! ) as I thought you were behind it, but I for one support the product even more now. You have an excellent product, driven by a huge passion and with that combination you can't fail. You deserve every success.

Happy to help if I can.

I had my suspicions and guessed this was the case from the way the Ultimate stuff has been pushed on ISM
it was obvious you were both involved. To be honest I was starting to get fed up hearing about the stuff in every
other post.

All I will say is, I think you should have made this announcement sooner.

Isn't this now going to change ISM? This was supposed to be a non profit hobby forum but it kind of feels like
ISM is really a commercial venture and a marketing tool for Ultimate Products and this is the whole reason why it
was started?

I do think that both yourself and Paul deserve some reward for the time you put into ISM so I do wish
you both the best of luck with your venture.

Though it does now feel like ISM is really the Ultimate Products Forum now.

You need to place an add banner in the forum heading that states "This forum is supported by proceeds from the sale of Ultimate Modelling Products".

The forum was never set up with the intention of anything to do with ultimate it was after the forum started we decided to start Ultimate. Yes we push the products but they work and work very well. Ism is ism and always will be a forum funded by myself and lee as the forum we intended.

LocoFeldwebel wrote:You need to place an add banner in the forum heading that states "This forum is supported by proceeds from the sale of Ultimate Modelling Products".

It's not though, never has and never will be. Ism is funded out of our own pockets.

ok, I can accept that, no problem. I am not trying to slight you guys or the forum. So how about that North American supplier?

Paul wrote:The forum was never set up with the intention of anything to do with ultimate it was after the forum started we decided to start Ultimate.

ISM has only been around for a few months but Lee has said that you have been working on the Ultimate products for quite a while now perfecting and honing them.

That sounds like the concept and development of Ultimate products isn't something that has just happened in the last few months since ISM was born.

I have enjoyed ISM and yourself and Lee's friendship for the last few months but I now just feel ISM has been part of a marketing strategy for your new business.

I asked you what was in the Ultimate Thinner a few weeks ago and you told me you didn't know, so I am sure you can understand why I feel a little disappointed tonight.

I just wish you had disclosed this earlier Paul.

thumbs up and good luck Paul and Lee!
Hope to get my hands on some of the Ultimate products soon, can't wait to test them out the flying dutchman's way!

I dont feel like you have deceived us in any way at all.

I think the way you have gone about it is very smart. Yes every other post seems to be going on about the stuff. But thats just the same as every other post going on about airbrush this and model maker that and the paint brand that everybody posts about.

The way you have done it is to say you love the stuff and then we go and buy and see for our selfs that it really is that good. If you had told us from the start i think a lot of members would have got the stuff just because its made by you 2 and feel it is what is right to do.

I think doing it the way you have is that we have all made up our own minds on if its good or not.

I think there will be some on here that will feel peed off but there just not seeing the guys behind it. I 100% believe you that you are not using us to better yourselfs and any body that does should not be a member here. I have not been here long and i do not know you two of off the site but yet i can see how you guys are. And i for one thank you for ISM and the help you guys give out.

Just want to add congrats to you both and i wish you all the best with it and i really hope it goes global and makes you £1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

I will be telling everybody i know to get the stuff just like i was before

EpoxySniffer wrote:

Paul wrote:The forum was never set up with the intention of anything to do with ultimate it was after the forum started we decided to start Ultimate.

ISM has only been around for a few months but Lee has said that you have been working on the Ultimate products for quite a while now perfecting and honing them.

That sounds like the concept and development of Ultimate products isn't something that has just happened in the last few months since ISM was born.

I have enjoyed ISM and yourself and Lee's friendship for the last few months but I now just feel ISM has been part of a marketing strategy for your new business.

I asked you what was in the Ultimate Thinner a few weeks ago and you told me you didn't know, so I am sure you can understand why I feel a little disappointed tonight.

I just wish you had disclosed this earlier Paul.

Ism is nearly 6 months old Ultimate is not even 4 months old. We didn't want people to know its us as we felt we may not get fair reviews. It's that simple, but of you feel that way there's not much we can do about it.

Pitstop25 wrote:I dont feel like you have deceived us in any way at all.

I think the way you have gone about it is very smart. Yes every other post seems to be going on about the stuff. But thats just the same as every other post going on about airbrush this and model maker that and the paint brand that everybody posts about.

The way you have done it is to say you love the stuff and then we go and buy and see for our selfs that it really is that good. If you had told us from the start i think a lot of members would have got the stuff just because its made by you 2 and feel it is what is right to do.
y
I think doing it the way you have is that we have all made up our own minds on if its good or not.

I think there will be some on here that will feel peed off but there just not seeing the guys behind it. I 100% believe you that you are not using us to better yourselfs and any body that does should not be a member here. I have not been here long and i do not know you two of off the site but yet i can see how you guys are. And i for one thank you for ISM and the help you guys give out.

Just want to add congrats to you both and i wish you all the best with it and i really hope it goes global and makes you £1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

I will be telling everybody i know to get the stuff just like i was before

I agree with Pitstop25 110%.
Paul and Lee you guys had your reason which is understandable and is 100% acceptable to me

EpoxySniffer wrote:

Paul wrote:The forum was never set up with the intention of anything to do with ultimate it was after the forum started we decided to start Ultimate.

ISM has only been around for a few months but Lee has said that you have been working on the Ultimate products for quite a while now perfecting and honing them.

That sounds like the concept and development of Ultimate products isn't something that has just happened in the last few months since ISM was born.

I have enjoyed ISM and yourself and Lee's friendship for the last few months but I now just feel ISM has been part of a marketing strategy for your new business.

I asked you what was in the Ultimate Thinner a few weeks ago and you told me you didn't know, so I am sure you can understand why I feel a little disappointed tonight.

I just wish you had disclosed this earlier Paul.

I probably shouldn't butt in before Paul's response but just wanted to say that:

Purchasing Ultimate products isn't limited to being a Forum member (in fact is seems we will get a tasty discount) like some other sites who combine both a forum and business.

ISM makes I believe a small amount of running costs through merchandise which was made live before Ultimate.

The ISM channel vids do not begin or end with 5 minute Ultimate adverts.

ISM contains no permanent Ultimate banner advert.

If I had created a product line from scratch which I was proud of I would be mentioning and showing it every second of every day.

Sorry if this prolongs/ harms this discussion.

My inner statistician rejoices at this wonderful example of fair product testing/research etc but of course mostly about the new products ... looking good

Completely agree with you DC

On a plus...... Yay..... Andy's Flat Stuff ( as mentioned on ISM Facebook page on humbrol post ) could become a reality.... .

On a minus.... I never got any free samples... Boo...

On a plus... Yay.... I'm on the Panzer build so if completed in time will get some sanding sticks....

Oh and well done guys... i too was getting a little suspicious about your involvement with Ultimate...

Now which airbrush is you guy's invention??? Lol.... H & S or Neo-air
And you promote Perfect Plastic Putty a lot...... Is it yours???? Lol....

Well done again guy on some excellent modelling goodies.. Can't wait to try some out..

Ohai.
First of all - congrats on good Ultimate products kickstart.
The fact that you started and are hosting ISM and now revealed are also owners of Ultimate product line does not bother me or troubles in anyway (although I must admit - it was somehow a little bit uncanny). Whether it was a part of sales campaign of new product or not, this forum is currently the only one (maybe except YT community, but I still somehow haven't gotten into this one yet...) that is really modeller-friendly.

So my only hope is that this thread and revealed information won't split this community apart. Therefore I would like to ... appeal to all of us: let's separate those two things
ISM and community is one thing and let's continue being those merry fellows we are, dedicated to modelling, supporting each other and all this sweetnesses
And Ultimate - well they are probably great products (sorry, I haven't tested them yet and the costs of shipping it over to Poland are quite high and I will need some more time to decide) and I hope you guys will be succesfull and still lead the ISM for sake of modelling and us all

So just let's or some more and keep the things going their way...

So my voice to us:

Keep calm and eat

EpoxySniffer wrote:I had my suspicions and guessed this was the case from the way the Ultimate stuff has been pushed on ISM
it was obvious you were both involved. To be honest I was starting to get fed up hearing about the stuff in every
other post.

All I will say is, I think you should have made this announcement sooner.

Isn't this now going to change ISM? This was supposed to be a non profit hobby forum but it kind of feels like
ISM is really a commercial venture and a marketing tool for Ultimate Products and this is the whole reason why it
was started?

I do think that both yourself and Paul deserve some reward for the time you put into ISM so I do wish
you both the best of luck with your venture.

Though it does now feel like ISM is really the Ultimate Products Forum now.

Sniffer, I want to address your questions in order mate...

We couldn't make the announcement earlier for the reasons I stated (or couldn't state) in the original post.

No, this is definitely NOT going to change ISM in the slightest. It's still is a 100% non-profit hobby forum, in fact it actually cost myself and Paul a fair few pounds!

ISM is no way a marketing tool for Ultimate and was most definitely not the reason why it was started. This forum started because Paul and I wanted somewhere where modellers and youtubers could meet and discuss this hobby with out the fear of being ridiculed, ignored or belittled by 'rivet counters' and the such, which I think we have achieved. There is nothing but positive people and posts on ISM, no matter what skill level or genre of modeller you are.

This is not the Ultimate Modelling Products forum at all and it's a shame you feel that way, this is ISM and will always be a completely separate entity. A community built on mutual respect and positive support. Apart from us mentioning our new to market products that we have worked hard to get right and are quite proud of, do you see any overt advertising, banners or anything similar? I have given Ultimate a small product review slot on the show twice, the same as I have any other product, where's the problem with that?

It's a shame you feel this way sniffer, but I do think you've got hold of the wrong end of the smelly stick here bud....

Yay I no longer have to keep it secret!! As others I guessed that Lee and Paul were behind Ultimate and kist had to ask at the time and had it confirmed on the promise I kept schtum.

Any reviews I did on the products were purely based on the quality of the products alone and not influenced by the circumstances under which I got the products, or who had sent me them.

I wish you both every success in the future and I look forward to seeing the range expand in the future.

EpoxySniffer wrote:

Paul wrote:The forum was never set up with the intention of anything to do with ultimate it was after the forum started we decided to start Ultimate.

ISM has only been around for a few months but Lee has said that you have been working on the Ultimate products for quite a while now perfecting and honing them.

That sounds like the concept and development of Ultimate products isn't something that has just happened in the last few months since ISM was born.

I have enjoyed ISM and yourself and Lee's friendship for the last few months but I now just feel ISM has been part of a marketing strategy for your new business.

I asked you what was in the Ultimate Thinner a few weeks ago and you told me you didn't know, so I am sure you can understand why I feel a little disappointed tonight.

I just wish you had disclosed this earlier Paul.

I'll answer these ones too....

ISM has been around for 6 months now, we only started thinking about making our own modelling products three months ago, the third week of July to be precise.

We've also enjoyed your friendship and hope that this will continue, but rest assured this is not one giant marketing strategy and never has been, that just sounds very cloak and dagger if you ask me, do you honestly think we're like that? Do you not think that sounds more like a government conspiracy theory?

Why should Paul tell what's in the thinner? It's a secret! Why spend all our time, effort on money to come up with a product and then tell every one what's in it? Do you know the secret recipe for KFC? Do you think you should know?

Again, I explained (kind of) why we couldn't disclose this earlier and really probably should have said nothing as it is, but we wanted to let everyone know....

So you having a big stand at Telford then i'm guessing???

And seen as you are rolling it in now with the new stuff, you two are paying for all the drinks and meals after Telford then yeah??? LOL

BrummieModeller wrote:So you having a big stand at Telford then i'm guessing???

And see as you are rolling it in now with the new stuff, you two are paying for all the drinks and meals after Telford then yeah??? LOL

No,we're not having a stand at Telford and probably won't do model shows at all (commercially). If we do it will be as ISM as this is where our heart is!

Ha, try the other way around Dan - I wish we were rolling in it, but sadly not the case mate...lol

Lee wrote:

BrummieModeller wrote:So you having a big stand at Telford then i'm guessing???

And see as you are rolling it in now with the new stuff, you two are paying for all the drinks and meals after Telford then yeah??? LOL

No,we're not having a stand at Telford and probably won't do model shows at all (commercially). If we do it will be as ISM as this is where our heart is!

Ha, try the other way around Dan - I wish we were rolling in it, but sadly not the case mate...lol

Was worth a try huh!

BrummieModeller wrote:So you having a big stand at Telford then i'm guessing???

And seen as you are rolling it in now with the new stuff, you two are paying for all the drinks and meals after Telford then yeah??? LOL

You've never started your own business have you dan lol, it takes quite a while to see a return mate, so the drinks are on you mate

Paul wrote:

BrummieModeller wrote:So you having a big stand at Telford then i'm guessing???

And seen as you are rolling it in now with the new stuff, you two are paying for all the drinks and meals after Telford then yeah??? LOL

You've never started your own business have you dan lol, it takes quite a while to see a return mate, so the drinks are on you mate

Ive been self employed for about 2 months are it just failed lol and its two much hard work especially carrying tools all over Birmingham on a bus lol

Congrates Lee & Paul I can wait to try the products hope they r as good as u guys say they r.. Now to find a place that is selling the product.. Cheers Guys

Finally!!!!
I'll bet you two feel better now that you've announced this.
Walk proudly boys... this stuff rocks!!!
As always I'm 100% behind the forum, as I always will be.
Now I'll be supporting Ultimate. If it helps the forum in anyway not matter how small, I'm all for it.

Lee wrote:

EpoxySniffer wrote:

Paul wrote:The forum was never set up with the intention of anything to do with ultimate it was after the forum started we decided to start Ultimate.

ISM has only been around for a few months but Lee has said that you have been working on the Ultimate products for quite a while now perfecting and honing them.

That sounds like the concept and development of Ultimate products isn't something that has just happened in the last few months since ISM was born.

I have enjoyed ISM and yourself and Lee's friendship for the last few months but I now just feel ISM has been part of a marketing strategy for your new business.

I asked you what was in the Ultimate Thinner a few weeks ago and you told me you didn't know, so I am sure you can understand why I feel a little disappointed tonight.

I just wish you had disclosed this earlier Paul.

I'll answer these ones too....

ISM has been around for 6 months now, we only started thinking about making our own modelling products three months ago, the third week of July to be precise.

We've also enjoyed your friendship and hope that this will continue, but rest assured this is not one giant marketing strategy and never has been, that just sounds very cloak and dagger if you ask me, do you honestly think we're like that? Do you not think that sounds more like a government conspiracy theory?

Why should Paul tell what's in the thinner? It's a secret! Why spend all our time, effort on money to come up with a product and then tell every one what's in it? Do you know the secret recipe for KFC? Do you think you should know?

Again, I explained (kind of) why we couldn't disclose this earlier and really probably should have said nothing as it is, but we wanted to let everyone know....

Lee, as I said I genuinely wish both you and Paul success with your Ultimate venture. Though given the
circumstances I don't think it should come as a surprise that there might be some questions from members
on how this could potentially affect our community.

To take such a large product range from concept through the stages of R&D, production and into
market in just 3 months is impressive. Well done mate.

Obviously, if I had known that Paul was one of the directors of Ultimate then I wouldn't have alleged his
cleaner to be screenwash or been stupid enough to ask him what was in his thinner no more than I would walk
into KFC and ask the Colonel what was in his recipe and allege his chicken nuggets are horsemeat
(they are you know). What I was trying to convey is that I now feel like a total plank because of that
conversation and tonights revelation. My question about the ingredients of the thinner were innoncent and out
of genuine interest because I make my own homebrew thinner. I would not have asked Paul questions like
this and been critical and dismissive of his product had I known the truth. The secrecy has caused some
embarrasment for me.

Wait...you guys OWN IT??? Congrats on the great products, as i've heard of them so far!!!! Keep it up!

Paul and Lee:

1) Congrats on a strong start to a nice line of products (there may be truth to the line "do what you love and the money will follow", after all).

2) Don't why but suspected, or perhaps just assumed it was one or both of you.

3) I hope that you are thick skinned enough to allow negative posts or posts recommending other products. While the reviews are good, and I want some (but I'm in Canada), but I think everyone knows that even the best products are not the best product every time. You know, the carpenter has more than one hammer and size of nail, type thing...

Paul and Lee,
1st of all I want to say that I have totally enjoyed this forum since I joined and I didn't even think that you guys were behind these products.
Today, before I read this announcement, I purchased from e-models, most of your products (washes, airbrush cleaner, thinner and sanding sticks). This took some searching on the web. I cannot wait to get them from the UK and use them.
Is there a US supplier? Or do you have a US distributor?

Martin

Interesting to see some of the responses to the announcement, but just goes to prove that this forum contains free thinking intelligent individuals - oh, and I joined as well!

For those that may have some negative thoughts about the news, I would ask them to consider two things. Firstly, this is Lee and Paul's forum, but without everyone posting their reviews, WIP, news and gossip it would collapse very quickly. Lee does stress on the news shows that it is the members forum and it is the members content that makes it what it is. Apart from the swear filter, you can pretty much post what you like. And secondly, you've only got to watch some of the advice and review videos that Lee and Paul have posted to see where their real passion lies. In any other walk of life, how much would you pay to receive tutoring/lessons with this level of expertise - and it's all here for free!!!!! Let's not forget, the hardware alone to run a forum like this is going to cost a fair few pennies - being in the IT hardware business, I see all the costs that a lot of people don't necessarily see.

Apologies to waffle on - but WAKE UP!! - I'm almost finished. I've been in sales for almost 30 years and if I've learnt one thing in that time, it is to use the contacts you have. The old adage of, it's not what you know, but who you know, so why wouldn't they use the forum to let every know about their products. At the end of the day it's down to us as to whether we buy them or not.

Personally, I bought the lot, have used most of them and am very impressed!!!

Oh, and apologies for giving a couple of bottle away, but hopefully you have another convert!

Thanks Alex, and to all you guys, your kind comments mean a lot.

I would never recommend anything I don't believe in, harder Steenbeck , Iwata Neo airbrushes I recommend all the time, as I do with kits tools etc. Our products do what they say and even I'm amazed just how good our thinner works,ive tested it with every modelling acrylic I can find,sourcing them from all over the world infact. And ill be adding more as and when I find them.

I'm sorry if any of you feel bad about this that was never the intention, ISM is ISM, and always will be Ultimate is a separate business. Will I still recommend Ultimate products,hell yeah I will, why wouldn't I they work great.

If we had wanted to make money from you guys from the forum we would've set it up as a paid for forum, but we didn't and never ever will.

Myself and Lee put a lot of time and effort into ism, (as we do with Ultimate) and we hope the forum and friendly community continues to grow and we both look forward to meeting some of you at Telford

Ok here's how I see it.

Lee and Paul tell us the two ventures were set up independently and I have no reason to disbelieve them.

To be honest even if they weren't it would not cause me any issues unless the forum was being used to push sub standard products, if this was the case obviously it wouldn't work for long as the members would become disillusioned.

From what I've seen and read the Ultimate range has received good independent reviews and as long as the forum is run in it's current enthusiast based format and all modelling products are given fair reviews then long may it continue.

Wishing you both the best with the new venture. After all if it results in modellers getting good products at reasonable prices, why shouldn't you both benefit from it.

Cheers
John

I knew it! Ha! I even tried to find out on the companies house website! Lol!

You guys must be pooped with all the hours you must have to put in to the forum and Ultimate. I wish you every success with it, it can only be a positive for the forum in my eyes.
A big WELL DONE to you both!


Ps. Can the washes be airbrushed?

I haven't known Lee or Paul for very long, and I've only ever been a member of one forum... ISM.
So I can't really say too much about anything.
But I will anyway... haha.

I worked with Lee and Paul quite well when I was a moderator for the site and through that I developed a friendship with them.
I've come to respect them and value them greatly as people. Both of them are fine fellas that actually go well out of their way to make this forum happen.
It takes enormous time and energy as well as money to run ISM.
They do it anyway and they do it with a smile... (Complete loonies if you ask me haha)

That being said, I don't carry personal biases toward them, Ultimate, or ISM.
I try very hard not to do that sort of thing.
It causes nothing but problems and discontent.
I accept them for who they are and what they do at face value and I will never try to interpret anything beyond that.
I will never try to "read between the lines", assume this or that.
If I want to know something I'll ask, if they can answer they will.
Assuming something just makes an Ass out of U and Me.

These fellas are grown men that are intelligent, and honest and certainly capable of making adult decisions.
Deciding to open a company that sells well tested top quality modelling products that are designed by modellers for modellers... and are very well priced, while they also run a forum that is all about modelling and making it better and more enjoyable... that just seems like a rational and logical decision to me.

So... in my humble opinion (haha)
Good stuff... Rock on... and lets get back to the styrene eh?

Well said that man.....

Brian

Awesome stuff guys keep the products comming,

Im looking into the best way to get some of your products down to me in NZ...

Really happy for you

For anyone who is still harbouring feelings of being "decieved" or the like by the fact that you didn't know it was Lee and Paul behind Ultimate, think of it this way.

Do you know who runs Airfix? Revell, Tamiya. Mr Hobby, Trumpeter etc etc etc. No you don't, yet you still buy their products, and you still listen to reviews of those products, and let me tell you, a good number of people putting up reviews of those things have been given that product to review. This situation with Ultimate is no different. They are perfectly within their rights to have stayed silent on the people behind the company, it should have absolutely no bearing on peoples opinions of the products.

I am very thankful that I was asked to review and help test those products, and I have spoken to Paul and Lee on several occasions pointing out some small things that could be improved, and doing small specific tests of things to answer some questions they had. Its part of releasing a new product and happens in all companies to a degree.

I fully believe that ISM was set up purely as an alternative modelling forum. There are many out there, and this is just another. But its the one I call home and its the one I enjoy using. Do I rate the Ultimate products highly, yes. Is it because I know who is behind it and I am being biased, not at all. I rate them for what they are as a product, and as a product they are incredibly good value, and incredibly good quality.

If people have reservations about whether the reviews put up so far could be biased in any way, go buy one of the products and make your own judgement.

As I said before, I with both Lee and Paul the best in their new enterprise, and I also thank them for bringing another product and more competition to the modelling market.

Just suddenly realised I had these on my desk at work!

chief5437 wrote: Ps. Can the washes be airbrushed?

Yes mate, they can