Zvezda (ish) 1/72 Bf109Z conversion

[UKscalemodeller]

My entry to the WW2 GB will be the Bf109Z, a cut and shut job on two Zvezda Bf109F-2 kits.



!!! WARNING! POTENTIALLY DODGEY HISTORY AHEAD !!!

An RLM directive of 1941 had tried to limit the amount of new designs coming from the major aircraft companies, to not disrupt the production lines with new aircraft. So when the Messerschmitt development department received a directive in 1942 to begin work on a Zerstörer (destroyer, or heavy fighter) it came up with a novel design, the Bf 109Z (Zwilling, or twin).
The Bf 109Z was to use around 90% of pre-existing Bf109 parts, with only the new main wing and tailplane, modified landing gear mountings, slightly larger wheels, extra fuel tanks in place of the starboard cockpit and a few other components needed to complete the aircraft.
The Bf 109Z prototype incorporated two Bf 109F-4 fuselages, joined with a new constant chord wing center section and parallel chord tailplane, in a manner paralleled by the later F-82 Twin Mustang.

A pair of Klemm Kl 35 Ds were joined by the wingtips to prove the concept that the Me109Z could be piloted from a cockpit located to the side of the centerline.



The Bf109Z was powered by the 109F-4 powerplant, the Daimler Benz DB 601E-1 engine. The main landing gear attachment point were moved inboard to attach to a strengthened centerline keel in each fuselage. A single pilot sat in the port cockpit and the starboard cockpit was faired over.
Only one prototype was completed, in early 1943, but it was damaged in an Allied air attack on the Messerschmitt test center, and the damage was deemed too severe for repair. Several further Bf 109Z designs were planned, developed around the 109G fuselages but were never built. The development was abandoned in 1944, and by then, the Me 262 jet fighter had taken wing.

Messerschmitt Bf 109Z-1 Data

Span 13.27 m (43' 6")
Length 9.048 m (29' 8")
Height 2.69 m (8' 10")
Weight Empty 6000 kg (13224 lbs)
Weight Loaded 7280 kg (16050 lbs)
Max. Speed 743 km/h @ 8000 m (462 mph @ 26250')
Cruise Speed 570 km/h @ 3000 m (354 mph @ 9840')
Service Ceiling 11700 m (38385')


Info taken from Wikipedia & Luft ‘46

!!! POTENTIALLY DODGEY HISTORY LESSON OVER !!!

You may notice that I have not included any box or sprue shots, this is because I only ordered them this morning and will be picking up them up on the way home.

[Lee]

What I found on Wiki for you....

Bf 109Z "Zwilling"

Bf 109Z-1
This experimental aircraft was essentially two Bf 109F airframes (together with outer wing panels) joined together by means of a new wing, and new tail section, in a manner paralleled by the F-82 Twin Mustang. In the preproduction model, the right fuselage cockpit was faired over and the pilot flew the aircraft from the left side fuselage. Four variants of this aircraft were proposed, one an interceptor armed with five 30 mm (1.18 in) cannons, and up to a 1,000 kg (2,200 lb) bomb load, the second a fighter bomber version, armed with two MK 108 cannons and up to two 2,200 lb. bombs. Both airframes were to be powered by the DB605 engine. A third and fourth were designed on paper and would be similar to the first two airframes but powered by Jumo 213 engines. Only one Bf 109Z was built, and it was never flown, having been damaged in an Allied bombing raid while in hangar and the project was permanently abandoned in 1944.

[Paul]

What I found on Wiki for you....

Bf 109Z "Zwilling"

Bf 109Z-1
This experimental aircraft was essentially two Bf 109F airframes (together with outer wing panels) joined together by means of a new wing, and new tail section, in a manner paralleled by the F-82 Twin Mustang. In the preproduction model, the right fuselage cockpit was faired over and the pilot flew the aircraft from the left side fuselage. Four variants of this aircraft were proposed, one an interceptor armed with five 30 mm (1.18 in) cannons, and up to a 1,000 kg (2,200 lb) bomb load, the second a fighter bomber version, armed with two MK 108 cannons and up to two 2,200 lb. bombs. Both airframes were to be powered by the DB605 engine. A third and fourth were designed on paper and would be similar to the first two airframes but powered by Jumo 213 engines. Only one Bf 109Z was built, and it was never flown, having been damaged in an Allied bombing raid while in hangar and the project was permanently abandoned in 1944.

So does that mean it can't be included?

[Lee]

I think it can be included as it is confirmed that the aircraft was actually built and not just a drawing on paper. I think it's a goer mate

[Gav0909]

I dunno, I thought the brief was anything from WW2, which to me means that it should include things that never passed the prototype stage as well. As there were many, and many were marvellous technological innovations.

Frnakly I don't have any say in it, but I think it should count. A prototype was produced, meaning the plane did exist.

[Paul]

I think it can be included as it is confirmed that the aircraft was actually built and not just a drawing on paper. I think it's a goer mate

That's fine by me, to be honest I just scanned the paragraph, thought you were posting it because it couldn't be included

Will be an interesting build, looking forward to seeing it come together

[UKscalemodeller]

I think it can be included as it is confirmed that the aircraft was actually built and not just a drawing on paper. I think it's a goer mate

That's fine by me, to be honest I just scanned the paragraph, thought you were posting it because it couldn't be included

Will be an interesting build, looking forward to seeing it come together

Phew...'cos I just spent cash on etch as well.

I will of course stick only to what is known about it, no conjecture.

Still figuring out the paint scheme though.

that said, it is better looking in my mind than the actual result will be.

[Paul]

I think it can be included as it is confirmed that the aircraft was actually built and not just a drawing on paper. I think it's a goer mate

That's fine by me, to be honest I just scanned the paragraph, thought you were posting it because it couldn't be included

Will be an interesting build, looking forward to seeing it come together

Phew...'cos I just spent cash on etch as well.

I will of course stick only to what is known about it, no conjecture.

Still figuring out the paint scheme though.

that said, it is better looking in my mind than the actual result will be.

I'm sure it'll look awesome

[UKscalemodeller]

Just got to hope that the time from ordering the stuff at 9:30 to me arriving at 5:00-%:30 is long enough for the order to be picked out of the warehouse.

[Paul]

Just got to hope that the time from ordering the stuff at 9:30 to me arriving at 5:00-%:30 is long enough for the order to be picked out of the warehouse.

Is it from emodels? If so I'm sure they will just get it for you when you turn up

[schweinhund227]

Darn !!! you let in Prototypes now ! Grrrr...





Good luck with the Bird !!! looks very interesting in deed ! I personally never knew about it !

Cool !

[UKscalemodeller]

So, yesterday I called in at . . . . .



on my way home from work to collect my loot for the GB



There are two decal options shown on the side



And the built but unpainted model on the back



Each box contains, two gray sprues and a press seal bag containing the clear part and decals. There is an A4 instruction booklet, a sheet in Russian that I don't know what it is and, again in Russian a sdvertising card (I think)



The first sprue holds the fusalage halves, cockpit sub assembly pieces, wheels and inserts for the guns on the engine cowl.



I don't understand why this has been done like this



The cockpit sidewalls are, for a snap together kit, decent.



There are two options for the instrument panel, one with detail and a blank one if you want to use the decal or etch.



The second sprue contains the flying surfaces, spinner, propellor, exhausts, wheels



And 3piece pilot



The wing and horizontal stabilizers are nicely detailed as well



This is the part that will cause the most trouble I think, moving the gear attatchments inboard.



And finally for the kit itself, the clear part. It isnt very thin but IS clear and well formed.



The pegs front and back are unsightly though (they must be to help the canopy 'snap' into position.

[Paul]

Brilliant, looking forward to seeing this started

[Lee]

Yes, definitely looking forward to seeing how this turns out

[bullgill67]

good luck with the build

michael

[UKscalemodeller]

Right, on with the review
The instructions are an A4 booklet, showing wheels up or down options

With easy to follow instructions

As can be expected for a snap together kit, the construction is simple, with only 8 steps plus painting and decaling.

I have never done a Zvezda kit before and so was not sure what to expect from the decals but I am reasonably impressed

Also in the box were

And


I won’t show the contents of the other box, and the etch parts are still with the carrier pigeon.

Unfortunately there is an almost total lack of ref material for this build which may well limit the quality of this thread.

[Lee]

It's out there some where, just have to hunt it down.....lol

[UKscalemodeller]

It's out there some where, just have to hunt it down.....lol

Have sharpened my mouse to a fine point and have daubed my face in advertising slogans, Let the internet information hunt begin.....

[Lee]

It's out there some where, just have to hunt it down.....lol

Have sharpened my mouse to a fine point and have daubed my face in advertising slogans, Let the internet information hunt begin.....

ha ha - excellent

[UKscalemodeller]

More goodies arrived,



it contains the pre painted etch



and a small transparency sheet



The instructions are a single A4 sheet



I'm not too sure about how parts 23 attach to 33 but I'm sure I'll figure it out (or totally screw it up.)



This is the first time I have ever worked with etch. I have looked around for tips and think I plan to make a couple of simple tools before I start chopping.

[UKscalemodeller]

OK, so the moving of the gear is causing me a BIG headache. . . . . do I fill the old wheel wells and cut new ones, or cut out a section including the wheel wells and move the lot inboard. That is the question occupying my mind at the moment, my decision seems to be very much dependant on my mood.

Therefore I decided to distract myself with the pondering of the coulor scheme. As there are no photgraphs of the machine there is no solid evidence of what it was painted like. I could not find any evidence (unless anyone can contradict that) of a standard 'prototype' paint colour for the Messerschmitt company, so at the moment I am leaning towards



Although every other version of the above seems to be much lighter (looks as if it was actually RLM 74/75/76) but those images appear to be HEAVLY copyrighted.

[UKscalemodeller]

Still wrestling with this but at the moment the prelim. plan is below



The red parts will be taken out, the blue sections removed entirely, to accommodate the move inboard and to square up the panels outboard of the wheels. the red parts re inserted further inboard and the green area filled with plasticard. Then the seams I have created filled and sanded. the leading edge will have moved but that shouldn't be a problem as it has to move anyway.

Any thoughts?

[Lee]

Good luck with that - Some real work coming up for you

As an aside - I've attached a Bf109 Reference book I have. It has LOADS of different paint schemes in there, the world's your oyster really as there is no concrete evidence to suggest what it looked like. Anyways, hope you find it useful

[UKscalemodeller]

Good luck with that - Some real work coming up for you

As an aside - I've attached a Bf109 Reference book I have. It has LOADS of different paint schemes in there, the world's your oyster really as there is no concrete evidence to suggest what it looked like. Anyways, hope you find it useful

'Der Rotte Kampffleiger' it is then

thanks for the ref material. MUCHLY appreciated.

[UKscalemodeller]

Well I know I've had this discussion before but it's a habit learned when I was of an impressionable age . . .



Yes I washed them. I suppose it's more out of habit rather than needing to but I do it no matter if it is white metal, plastic, figures, aircraft. The last time I disn't bother the paint wouldn't stick.

I just have to make sure that I am up before the shouty small people in the morning to retrieve them from the dining table where they are currently drying.

[PhildaFish]

This is a massively intriguing prospect, I'll be watching with great interest. By the way, according to my reference material prototypes were painted RLM02 grey between 1939/40 - 1945.

[UKscalemodeller]

Intriguing yes, also.

Following your lead I have investigated, yes prototypes did appear to be RLM02. DRAT! I wanted a pretty camo.......

The best match I can find (sticking with Vallejo model air) is light grey green. Luckyly I have a 100% unused bottle of sat on the bench.

Makes for a boring looking model though.

[Lee]

Makes for a boring looking model though.

Not necessarily, the subject alone is interesting enough!

[Paul]

Intriguing yes, also.

Following your lead I have investigated, yes prototypes did appear to be RLM02. DRAT! I wanted a pretty camo.......

The best match I can find (sticking with Vallejo model air) is light grey green. Luckyly I have a 100% unused bottle of sat on the bench.

Makes for a boring looking model though.

It's your model though your choice how its painted, maybe this one was put into service, it just wasnt documented.

[UKscalemodeller]

Nooooooo! now I have another decision to make......

I can't even decide what I want for my tea tonight, let alone what colour to paint this thing.

[Lee]

Pink....

Ha ha like the cock pit book

[chief5437]

Pink....

Ha ha like the male chicken pit book

[Paul]

Pink....

Ha ha like the male chicken pit book

Right that's going of the swear filter, how can we not say cockpit on bloody modelling forum, and bugger is coming of it too

[Paul]

There now we can say cock pit and bugger

[UKscalemodeller]

There now we can say cock pit and bugger

Excellent!

Plus all this 'cockpit' and 'Bugger' nonsense means that hopefully people won’t notice that I’m not filling the thread with build pictures.

Another way to ‘fill’ the thread is below

!!!WARNING SLIGHTLY LESS DODGEY THAN LAST TIME HISTORY BELOW!!!

For background to the ‘Zwilling’ concept

The F82 twin mustang had a well-documented service life, whereas the Bf109 Z is possibly the least known ‘Siamese twin’ aircraft, possibly due to the fact that it never entered service.
But the Bf109Z was not the Luftwaffe’s first attempt at the ‘Zwilling’ concept.

The history of the ‘Zwilling’ – part 1

The German armed forces developed some very large glider aircraft during the Second World War. The aim of these aircraft was to be able to deliver, by air, a medium tank, or an 88mm gun and its tractor, Much more than the standard Luftwaffe Ju52 3m. This resulted in the Me321.

The size and load of the 321 however created its own problems. Towing the 321 into the air was in itself a mammoth task, first given to the Ju90, but this proved underpowered for the task. Then a system of THREE Bf110s flying in a V formation was trialled, this worked but was highly dangerous.

Heinkel came up with a concept that would create a new aircraft, capable of towing the mammoth glider, without the need to create an entirely new craft that required a new set of tooling and jigs, the He111 Z ‘Zwilling’.

he-111z.gif

The He 111Z was a design that entailed the merging of two He 111s. Initially, four He 111 H-6s were modified. This resulted in a twin-fuselage, five-engine aircraft. They were tested at Rechlin, and the pilots rated them highly. A batch of 10 were produced and five were built from existing H-6s. The machines were joined by a center wing formed by two sections 6.15 m (20 ft) in length. The powerplants were five Jumo 211F engines at 1,000 kW (1,340 hp) each. Total fuel capacity was 8,570 L (2,260 US gal). This was increased with the addition of four 600 L (160 US gal) drop tanks. It could tow a Gotha Go 242 or Me 321 for up to 10 hours at cruising speed. It could also remain airborne if the three centralized powerplants failed. The He 111 Z-2s and Z-3s were also planned as heavy bombers carrying 1,800 kg (3,970 lb) of bombs and having a range of 4,000 km (2,500 mi). The ETC extensions allowed for a further four 600 L (160 US gal) drop tanks to be installed.

The He 111 Z-2 could carry four Henschel Hs 293 anti-shipping guided missiles , which were guided by the FuG 203b Kehl III missile control equipment. With this load the He 111Z had a range of 1,094 km (680 mi) and a speed of 314 km/h (195 mph). Its maximum bombload was 7,200 kg (15,870 lb). To increase power the five Jumo 211F-2 powerplants were to be fitted with Hirth TK 11 superchargers. The armament was the same as the H-6 with the addition of one 20 mm MG 151/20 in a rotating gun-mount on the center section. The variant did not display any convincing (stable) flight performance.

Info taken from Wikipedia

!!!WARNING SLIGHTLY LESS DODGEY THAN LAST TIME HISTORY OVER!!!

[Gav0909]

That twin He111 actually existed and flew?!? Now that would be a modelling project! In fact, someone should do that using the Revell 1/32 He111 as base aircraft! Can you say monster!

[UKscalemodeller]

That twin He111 actually existed and flew?!? Now that would be a modelling project! In fact, someone should do that using the Revell 1/32 He111 as base aircraft! Can you say monster!

They were indeed real,

hez1.jpg

And Italeri do/did one http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/ ... 1119.shtml

hez2.jpg

[Gav0909]

I am not going to lie, but that is one of the coolest things I have ever seen!

*Wonders how big a 1/32 scale He111Z would be........*

[UKscalemodeller]

I am not going to lie, but that is one of the coolest things I have ever seen!

*Wonders how big a 1/32 scale He111Z would be........*

1.1mtr wide by 51cm

or in old money

43 by 20 inch

[Lee]

I am not going to lie, but that is one of the coolest things I have ever seen!

*Wonders how big a 1/32 scale He111Z would be........*

1.1mtr wide by 51cm

or in old money

43 by 20 inch

Hi caramba.....

[Paul]

We need build pictures

[UKscalemodeller]

We need build pictures

Well it's parents evening tonight so there will be little done.

But tomorrow night the SO is out 'with the girls' si I should have a couple of hours to start chopping things up.

Also need to find out if 2000grit will polish up sawn off clear sprue.

[Paul]

We need build pictures

Well it's parents evening tonight so there will be little done.

But tomorrow night the SO is out 'with the girls' si I should have a couple of hours to start chopping things up.

Also need to find out if 2000grit will polish up sawn off clear sprue.

Ive got 2500 grade and it won't polish it to a clear finish

[UKscalemodeller]

Ive got 2500 grade and it won't polish it to a clear finish

As long as its clear enough to make wingtip lights it will do. I'll give it a bash.

[bendavies]

Fantasic work mate looks brilliant

[PhildaFish]

Intriguing yes, also.

Following your lead I have investigated, yes prototypes did appear to be RLM02. DRAT! I wanted a pretty camo.......

The best match I can find (sticking with Vallejo model air) is light grey green. Luckyly I have a 100% unused bottle of sat on the bench.

Makes for a boring looking model though.

I thought the same thing but didn't want to say so. The build itself would be anything but boring. One other option springs to mind: pre 1939 prototypes were painted RLM 24 which is a slightly more interesting dark blue. During the war there were many shortages and a lot of use for the RLM 2 grey paint and few uses for the blue so perhaps they had some blue in stock after the grey ran out... Just a thought.
Here's a link to the spread sheet that I work from for RLM colours, I made it myself from several different sources but I think it's accurate. (If you see any glaring errors, please let me know.)
http://scaleworld.webs.com/colour-charts

[UKscalemodeller]

In order to fill the void until actual pictures of the build surface . . . . . .

!!!WARNING SLIGHTLY LESS DODGEY THAN THE FIRST TIME HISTORY BELOW!!!

The history of the ‘Zwilling’ – part 2

The layout of the He 111Z had the pilot and his controls in the port fuselage only. Only the controls themselves and essential equipment remaining in the starboard section. The aircraft had a crew of seven; a pilot, first mechanic, radio operator and gunner in the port fuselage, and the observer, second mechanic and gunner in the starboard fuselage.

The Z-3 was to be a reconnaissance version and was to have additional fuel tanks increasing its range to 6,000 km (3,730 mi). Production was due to take place in 1944, just as bomber production was being abandoned. The long-range variant designs failed to come to fruition. The He 111Z was to have been used in an invasion of Malta in 1942 and as part of an airborne assault on the Soviet cities Astrakhan and Baku in the Caucasus in the same year. During the Battle of Stalingrad their use was cancelled due to insufficient airfield capacity. Later in 1943 it helped evacuate German equipment and personnel from the Caucasus region and during the Allied invasion of Sicily attempted to deliver reinforcements to the island.

During operations, the He 111Z did not have enough power to lift a fully loaded Me 321. The He 111s in RATO (rocket assisted takeoff) units were supplemented by rocket pods. Two were mounted beneath each fuselage and one underneath each wing. This added 500 kg (1,100 lb) in weight, but gave additional thrust to the engines. The pods were then released by parachute after takeoff. The He 111Z's operational history was minimal.

One such machine was caught by RAF fighter aircraft over France on 14 March 1944. The He 111Z was towing a Gotha Go 242, and was shot down. Eight were shot down or destroyed on the ground in 1944.

He111 Z Info taken from Wikipedia

!!!WARNING SLIGHTLY LESS DODGEY THANTHE FIRST TIME HISTORY OVER!!!

It is hardly surprising then that Messerschmitt came up with the concept of the Bf109 Z, in that the He111 Z was built in order to pull THEIR monster glider.

I am now trying to imagine a flight of He111Zs pulling a flight of Me 321s escorted by a flight of Bf109Zs

[Lee]

I am now trying to imagine a flight of He111Zs pulling a flight of Me 321s escorted by a flight of Bf109Zs

What a sight that would have been.....!!! And the noise

[Bagpiper]

Nice build thread mate. Looking forward to seeing this progress.

Cheers
Jim

[UKscalemodeller]

All marked up ready for plastic surgery.





Errrr........ is it........ errrr........ is it..........too.......too late to say that my entry to the group built is a pair of Bf109F-2s?