Global Scale Modeller

Ok so I have been asking myself how can you tell when someone is being a rivet counter and when that person is actually just trying to be accurate? we've all seen those models that look perfect but have some inaccuracies and are still afraid to say something because we do not want to be mistaken by a rivet counter.

So my question is:
how do you go about giving constructive criticism without sounding like a rivet counter? are you actually helping that modeler by saying something? or are you better off just biting your tongue? What is your opinion?


NOTE: this is intended to see different opinions about this subject, there is not right or wrong answer about this!! so please keep an open mind and please be respectful to others!! any conflicting comment will be remove without notice!!

I'm always up for constructive critism I know my models are not perfect by a long shot I just enjoy doing them and my son enjoys watching me and them up on his ceiling so as long as he is happy I'm happy. I will hopefully be getting a airbrush for Xmas of the wife so that will help if it looks like it should the that's ok with me.

I personally am weary of commenting in the accuracy of others work particularly when a model is finished, I may point out an oversight during construction to give the builder to rectify it, but as I don't consider myself an expert on anything, I tend to keep my fingers off the keyboard about such things.

If the person is a "rivet counter" it implies a degree of obsessiveness to accuracy that would make comments unnecessary and most likely unwelcome.

At the end of the day I believe a builder puts their work out there when he/she is happy with it, why should I deflate their bubble. It's their kit and effort they've put in to build it and I'm happy for them.

If some one asks for advice on how to make a kit accurate and people then give their advice then thats being accurate. Rivet counting, to me anyway, is some one commenting on a build once it's finished saying things like you should on done this, the dihedral is 10˚ off or that radar wash't there 3 months after the model you built etc etc blah blah blah. I'm sure people don't want to hear how wrong their model is after taking all that time to build it and make it look good, just plain rude in my opinion and will not be stood for on this site

I build my models pretty much out of the box unless I really want to push the boat out, if the model is wrong then it's wrong. I couldn't give a toss what some one else thinks as long as I enjoyed making it and the end result looks half decent

I'm not super fussed by 'rivet counting'. Id rather see a kit that is well done and even better if it has some 'personality'

That said one of my pet peeves is over weathered kits.
eg planes or tanks that look more abondened rather than weathered, cars with crazy thick panel lines etc

Well isn't this a can of worms

Personally I have no issue with people critiquing my modelling abilities (or spelling) after all, we all have something to learn and if it helps me improve then it is welcome. The moment we think we know everything is probably the moment we turn into a rivet counter. But I do take offence at people picking to pieces the accuracy of my work, after all it's my hobby, which I do for fun. If I were to be a professional model maker then yes I would expect that level of criticism but not for a hobby.

In re-enactment we call them the 'authenticity police', and they are generally disliked.

It also I think has a lot to do with what Lee said about it being rude, It's how the comment is given/meant to be taken. After all even though essentially they are saying the same thing there is a world of difference between,

"Nice work, I think I would have done the cowling a more bronze colour though after seeing one in wherever museum last year"

and

"The cowling is wrong, it should be bronze not steel"

That said, if all I can think to say about someone's work is negative, I just won't comment al all.

That's my opinion anyway.

I'll reserve commenting on anything on anything like that, unless someone has asked for constructive criticism and it is during the building phase.

Once the model is done, it's done, and it's time to hold your tongue.

Yeah, I agree with most peoples comments so far, in that if you have a comment that is intended to be supportive criticism, or some genuine help and advice while the model is being built, fine. But if you feel the need once the model is complete to point out some minor detail flaw then that would grate on me too, as frankly once a model is complete that's it.

I also however think that sometimes people might not help themselves, when faced with a situation where someone is perhaps being overly critical of some minor detail. Frankly its easy to just say "thank you for your comment/suggestion, but the model is complete now and I am happy with the final work", but some people can't take criticism at all, no matter how well intended.

I would always expect some kind of constructive critisicm in my modelling if I present it here, otherwise how do you learn and improve. I want to make accurate models of course, but not to the point where I am tearing apart a model kit to remove the excess 2mm from the flap length or whatever it is.

I read a review of the Italeri M10 Achilles I am building, and the guy was saying how the muzzle brake is too small, and that the barrel was 8mm too long! And even had a pic of where to cut the barrel and how to attach a brass muzzle brake instead. And I was just thinking "it looks like a 17 pdr to me, so that will do!"

I know there's a certain sense of ambiguity surrounding the term 'Rivet Counter' but to me it means this:

Rivet Counter: Somebody who sacrifices fun for accuracy in a kit.

Personally I have no problem with criticism, I appreciate my models are far from perfect, I don't airbrush and I don't usually use aftermarket parts.
However people being picky for the sake of being picky annoys me this is a hobby right? A hobby is something enjoyable you do in your spare time so these 'rivet counters' shouldn't expect everyone to dish out on aftermarket parts/decals or airbrush or not buy a kit simply because something is a little oversized or the panel lines 'too deep', sure there are glaring accuracy issues which need to be addressed in older kits but in modern kits I find that most of the time it looks like what it's meant to and for me that's enough. In my opinion way to many sites and people are overly critical and negative about kits, one of my favourite bits of this site is that everybody is accepting and understanding.

If they are polite and kindly point out something then that's fine but if they are blunt, rude and disrespectful then how are they enjoying it and worse they're ruining it for everyone else. So whenever I offer advice I always spell correctly, have manners and word it so I don't sound obsessive .

Rant over

HobbyModeller wrote:
Rivet Counter: Somebody who sacrifices fun for accuracy in a kit.

I like that saying mate - Pretty much spot on with that

Lee wrote:

HobbyModeller wrote:
Rivet Counter: Somebody who sacrifices fun for accuracy in a kit.

I like that saying mate - Pretty much spot on with that

I second that!!

For me accuracy has never been a big concern.

I have done a lot of sci-fi and fantasy war gaming over the years so this may have helped.

As long as it looks pretty much like it's supposed to I'm happy.

Though you have these 'Rivet Counters" or they equivalent in nearly every hobby. ( they are never liked!!)

I also think its important to not brand someone a rivet counter purely if they wish to make some changes to a kit etc in order to sort an accuracy issue. I for example altered the travel lock mechanism on my AS90, the "legs" on the kit one are too long, not something I would even have noticed if I hadn't read about it in a review. It was a simple fix, and helped with the accuracy of the model. I also added a load of PE to it, most of which was to replace kit parts with more realistically scaled parts, but I didn't use all of them, only ones I wanted too. The GPMG in the kit is apparently wrong, but I don't care, looked like a GPMG to me so that was fine.

I think it's more a case of if you're trying to tell people how they should build their models and point out all their inaccuracies once built Gav, then you would be classed as a rivet counter.

Modelling is great because you can do as much or as little as you like and be happy with it, I don't think it matters as long as you enjoy yourself. What a rivet counter does is point out peoples mistakes, problems and lack of knowledge with the sole intention to belittle and embarrass that person whilst trying to make himself look superior, if only they realised it makes them look like a complete and utter cockpit

I once heard someone say "if it looks like a spitfire, it is a spitfire". That's good enough for me!

Other than you guys, the only people who see my kits are the girlfriend and her three daughters, so I'm more likley to get 'Does it come in pink?' rather than 'that F-16 block 50 was never painted in that colour!'

chief5437 wrote:I once heard someone say "if it looks like a spitfire, it is a spitfire". That's good enough for me!

Other than you guys, the only people who see my kits are the girlfriend and her three daughters, so I'm more likley to get 'Does it come in pink?' rather than 'that F-16 block 50 was never painted in that colour!'

How about when your daughter requests a pink tank?
Rivet counter kryptonite!

Ha ha love it coen

Haha do you know Shermans look good in pink!

Coen wrote:

chief5437 wrote:I once heard someone say "if it looks like a spitfire, it is a spitfire". That's good enough for me!

Other than you guys, the only people who see my kits are the girlfriend and her three daughters, so I'm more likley to get 'Does it come in pink?' rather than 'that F-16 block 50 was never painted in that colour!'

How about when your daughter requests a pink tank?
Rivet counter kryptonite!

That tank is AWESOME I am SO doing a pink tank for my Emily, I wonder where you can get Hello Kitty decals from?

Oh yea......

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hello-Kitty-P ... 92560#shId

Sorry way off topic, redirecting in 3..2..1..

UKscalemodeller wrote:Oh yea......

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hello-Kitty-P ... 92560#shId

Sorry way off topic, redirecting in 3..2..1..

That will look so cool

UKscalemodeller wrote:

Coen wrote:

chief5437 wrote:I once heard someone say "if it looks like a spitfire, it is a spitfire". That's good enough for me!

Other than you guys, the only people who see my kits are the girlfriend and her three daughters, so I'm more likley to get 'Does it come in pink?' rather than 'that F-16 block 50 was never painted in that colour!'

How about when your daughter requests a pink tank?
Rivet counter kryptonite!

That tank is AWESOME I am SO doing a pink tank for my Emily, I wonder where you can get Hello Kitty decals from?

I'm sure you can get them from HLJ bud.....

HAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Operation Petticoat, armoured version

Coen wrote:

chief5437 wrote:I once heard someone say "if it looks like a spitfire, it is a spitfire". That's good enough for me!

Other than you guys, the only people who see my kits are the girlfriend and her three daughters, so I'm more likley to get 'Does it come in pink?' rather than 'that F-16 block 50 was never painted in that colour!'

How about when your daughter requests a pink tank?
Rivet counter kryptonite!

That is priceless!!! Thanks for posting this, she is beautiful!!

For me rivet counters are people who try to find something to criticise on my models (there are plenty of opportunities to do so, but seriously, why is this necessary?). I know this too well from my Youtube channel, people find one single minor inaccuracy and tell me that in a pretty outraged tone. First of all i check out their profile (till now there was not a single person with at least one video about model building, if any video at all, on their channel), if he is a very good model builder i would most likely ask him to go into detail and to explain the issiue, how it can be avoided in the future or how he builds his models. If i have the feeling this fellow is just mocking me i simply ignore (delete) the comment.
I don´t like it to be criticised by people who don´t show me a proof that they build models at a decent standard, i don´t put myself out there just to be a punching bag for idiots and frustrated persons.
As my goals for my Youtube channel are providing help, inspiration and entertainment and the whole matter is "just" a hobby i don´t see why people even feel like arguing about rivets. It is supposed to be fun and until now i have seen very few kits which can be called "completely accurate".
This shows us that rivet counters will always find "something" to criticise, even when you built one of those perfect kits you might have done something wrong on the paintwork or weathering.
So whenever someone wants to hit you with criticism he will be able to do that and thats what i always keep in mind - thats what i appreciate when people ignore those flaws and despite everything tell me my work is good.

That's a weird question coming from you Luis !!! LOL

I knew deep inside you were a "remache counter"! (joke intentional)
for a Forum that was basically made with That Exact "Adverse reaction" to ...

It like when a woman ask us if a certain dress makes them look Fat ? How politically correct can you be? we are screwed either way ! LOL

I was an Anal retentive Obsessive Rivet counter before 2008 and I have shed all that away ! and feel 100 lbs lighter. I am free and I feel much better !

Thou I understand your question.... I would rather shake off the desire to sound Anal retentive or (Rivet counter) to someone even-thou you may be correct in trying to point out the obvious !

I correct the Ejector pin marks and go happily about my business.... No harsh feeling !
if I screw up and some dude tells me ? so be it !

some are Armchair Generals and know it all !!! and some are the Makers and builders...
since I started having fun... there is no going back !

Later buddy and don't feel bad about saying what's on your mind... just be ready to live the consequences... LOL you rivet counter you!!! LOL

schweinhund227 wrote:That's a weird question coming from you Luis !!! LOL

It like when a woman ask us if a certain dress makes them look Fat ? How politically correct can you be? we are screwed either way ! LOL

Correct answer - 'No its the extra 50lb that makes you look fat' hmmm will I survive the night?

i think its up to you put into it what you want and that makes you happy..ive gone mega detailed on some and bare bones on other depends how you want your model to look i suppose..at the end of the day there PLASTIC not the real thing..SO ENJOY

Coen wrote:

chief5437 wrote:I once heard someone say "if it looks like a spitfire, it is a spitfire". That's good enough for me!

Other than you guys, the only people who see my kits are the girlfriend and her three daughters, so I'm more likley to get 'Does it come in pink?' rather than 'that F-16 block 50 was never painted in that colour!'

How about when your daughter requests a pink tank?
Rivet counter kryptonite!

Now that is what it's all about. The smile. Paints a million words.

All right, so lots of real good and interesting points here!

Now let me share my take on the subject:


To me HobbyModeller hit it right on the head with the definition of what a rivet counter is, Rivet Counter: Somebody who sacrifices fun for accuracy in a kit.

But to other modelers accuracy is also very important, and there is nothing wrong with that. To me there are 2 types of modelers:
- the Hobbyist : someone who builds models for fun and is not focused too much on accuracy but on completion.

and then,

-The scale modeler: someone whose goal is to be as accurate as possible when building a kit on any scale. But has also fun doing it. He or She might also be interested in competitions such as IPMS for example.

One could be both but after you work on your skills, you are now in a level to take it to a show or competition. Remember, having recognition from your peers is a very rewarding feeling but it should not stop there!! It is a hobby after all!!

So to answer my own question, I'd say a rivet counter is someone who is just looking for ways to lower the character and/or value on the modeler's build. But to me if a comment or suggestion is made with a good intention like help improve the skills or knowledge on a modeler, Hey! I welcome it any time.

coladito1 wrote:All right, so lots of real good and interesting points here!

So to answer my own question, I'd say a rivet counter is someone who is just looking for ways to lower the character and/or value on the modeler's build.

I especially like how you put that, quite accurate I'd say.

It is also however the policy I take about my physical appearance. If I surround myself with ugly people I will by comparison be more attractive.

UKscalemodeller wrote:

coladito1 wrote:All right, so lots of real good and interesting points here!

So to answer my own question, I'd say a rivet counter is someone who is just looking for ways to lower the character and/or value on the modeler's build.

I especially like how you put that, quite accurate I'd say.

It is also however the policy I take about my physical appearance. If I surround myself with ugly people I will by comparison be more attractive.

Hanging out with fools works that way too.

I'm a weird one. I'm someone who likes to super detail some of my kits and yet, I know that they are not 100% accurate. In fact, not by a loooooong shot. I've seen some builds on some forums where the modeller has compared his kit to a scale drawing which has resulted in him restructuring the kit so that the 65 degree angle on the vertical stabiliser is now the correct 68 degrees. He then goes on to build a kit that is mediocre in terms of its finish - compared to competition class quality, that is. The point is, whatever gives you enjoyment in the hobby is what you then must do. My 'get-down-on-my-knees-and-worship-the-styrene-it's-made-from' build is an F4-U Corsair that has been super detailed to the hilt, including the exact number of individually hand punched rivets. Took the modeller five freakin' years to complete. He literally counted each rivet. But it doesn't mean he's an a-hole! Just that he's a perfectionist. As long as he says "This is what I do, but you do what you want!" I'm fine with that. It's when they say that everyone has to do that or they're somehow inferior that gets my hackles up! For me, it's all about the passion for the hobby. It may be that some of the most knowledgeable builders are crap (again comparing to competition standards) and some of the best modellers know nothing about what they build - doesn't matter. Be passionate and it will show through in what you do. If you build with passion, there is no such thing as a bad model. If you put your heart and soul into a build, boy does it show!

This is one of the reason,s I joined this site , I have not seen any post,s to suggest anything other than constructive an helpful like minded modeller,s. As for being to " nerdy or "rivet counting" people have to choice,s,take the advice or don,t. Tere is an expression some railway modeller,s use " prototypical" as soon as people start all that malarcy I,m not interested it,s your model build it your way and if I need advice then I know on this site I will be able to ask for it and give it

I think that it does not matter what we say as long as we are being polite - that's it. I respect our fellow modelers who love the accuracy and in answer to your question Luis. It goes back to common sense and mutual respect for each other. Short and simple. If I was to get told that I had something a wee bit out of place I would just tell them thanks for the info. But if you told me that the model looks a complete mess because we all know that this bit is actually a different shade of cat vomit green and how could I make such a noob mistake, then I would probably have a different reply.

Cheers
Jim

I think MakingModelsAgain has hit it! There's nothing wrong with going to the end of the world to get accuracy in a kit. Especially if that kit has personal meaning to the builder. I suppose calling someone a rivet counter is usually reserved for someone who uses his subject knowledge to put down someone else's work.
Any whoooo

Bagpiper wrote:I think that it does not matter what we say as long as we are being polite - that's it. I respect our fellow modelers who love the accuracy and in answer to your question Luis. It goes back to common sense and mutual respect for each other. Short and simple. If I was to get told that I had something a wee bit out of place I would just tell them thanks for the info. But if you told me that the model looks a complete mess because we all know that this bit is actually a different shade of cat vomit green and how could I make such a noob mistake, then I would probably have a different reply.

Cheers
Jim

Noob??!! You're sooo down with the kids, Jim! Lol

lol.. It is only some of the garbage I read in some forums mate.

Cheers
Jim

^^

Darn! I leave on vacation for a couple of weeks and a really interesting thread shows up. I hope that didn't sound harsh. I love the stuff here on ISM, really

I like what everyone has said in response to Luis' question. Likewise, Luis' response to the feedback echoed what I wanted to say after reading this lengthy discussion. So what can I say that hasn't been already been said? Perhaps a synthesis of what has been said.

The individual modeler decides for him or herself how far to go in their modeling journey. Let's face it. Model building has a lot of levels to it. Most people just build for fun and enjoyment. The world is a crazy place. So much of our daily lives are so full of business: work, family, community, etc. We all need to relax and get away from it all for short periods of time. I am so glad that there are so many of you out there keeping the hobby alive! Because the hobby is really all about FUN! I even keep the definition of the word, hobby, at my workbench, just to remind myself not to take it too seriously.

Healthy and spirited competition is and will always be a part of humanity, whether it be in music, art, racing, etc. Model building is no exception. I made a choice not too long ago to join IPMS and begin model building at the competitive level. Why? I wanted to meet model builders where I live and improve my skills. I also wanted to see how my model building stood up against other model builders in my area. I even have taken part in judging. Judges are not "rivet counters." In fact, most models judged at local and regional shows are evaluated by the builder's basic model skills. You don't need to compete to be in IPMS, it's just that the organization has put a lot of effort into the world of competitive model building. I am really glad that I joined IPMS and encourage anyone to take a look at any local clubs in their area.

So, where is the "rivet counter" ? Like all jerks, they are everywhere. We just have to accept it. I liked Hamlikar Barkus' assesment of them. I haven't had too many encounters with them on my Youtube channel, but I am sure my day will come. I think they are model builders who do not support the hobby, nor are they prudent. It is one thing to be a competitive judge and make some tough calls on a model; Its one thing when someone sends a note to you on ISM or another forum and asks for your critique on a model because they value your opinion; but to just be trolling on the Web or bashing a model with all sorts of negativity on a forum (yes, it does happen[but not here at ISM]) is completely off base.

lastly, there are model builders who are just really into detail. Nothing wrong with it at all, especially if the model builder is hired by a museum, company, etc. to build a replica of a particular subject. Moreover, think of all the model builders of the seventies and eighties who only dreamed of the loads of models on the market now. If there was no kit available of a subject, they had to build it themselves. Thus, came the rise of scratchbuilding and vaccum forming. They are rivet counters, but not in the way that the term is being defined in this discussion.

In the end, we are talking about negative attitudes of a small number of model builders, not the model itself. Likewise, these model builders are looking at the model and not the person. We model builders are a small community and will be getting smaller in the future (sad but true). These negative attitudes can be destructive - it can turn people from the hobby. We can't afford this.

Sorry for the tome. This is a heavy topic and is being discussed worldwide throughout the hobby. I just wanted to add my thoughts.

Disclaimer: All right, I just want to say that I am not a rivet head even though I put a whole lot of scratch built rivets on my universal carrier. In fact, I think I would get quite a rebuke from a rivet head because I do not have the exact number of rivets on my model. Also the number of rivets on all sides do not match one another

Reading the replies on this thread has confirmed to me exactly why I joined this forum in the first place. IMO we all love building models and appreciate others who share the same passion. The joy comes from the artistic pursuit and not just from mindless replication. I have never made a completely accurate model and probably never will . For me the joy comes from the testing and stretching of my abilities in order to see what I can achieve.

To quote an old saying, it is not about the destination but more about the journey. My other big passions is martial arts and we have have another saying, "it is not about beating an opponent, but about helping them to beat you."

Build it, paint it, weather it, but above all, love it.

How have I missed this thread for so long?!?!? So many replies to so many points that I've forgotten most of them! I have to say kudos to Coen for that pink Sherman, although wouldn't a Panther have made a better subject?!??!??? That's not me being critical or counting rivets but my poor attempt at humour! I've just got my 5 year old daughter out of bed to show her it (she couldn't sleep anyway) and now she wants one to go with her pink Spitfire!

As for critical comments - it's simple, if I'm unsure about something then I ask people for advice, if I get critical response then I act on them and say thanks or ignore it and say thanks but either way I asked for it and appreciate the time people have taken to read the post, look at the picture and type a response. If I get unlooked for critical comments then I weigh up their validity and the politeness of the comment and react accordingly.

I have had some comments on other sites that were both critical, unlooked for, rude and condescending. I shan't mention any names but I know certain people will know exactly who I mean!

Here's my tuppence worth!
Accuracy is for the builder of the kit. ie if you want the accuracy, you do your research, pick a particular mark/variant of what you're building. Find out what it was doing/where it was doing it, what mods were applied etc. and you build from there. Obviously, you would ask for input from others during the build, if needed.

rivet counting is when A N Other picks fault with someone else's build. Either after the kit is finished, or during the build when the builder hasn't asked for that kind of input.

I'm no expert, most of my builds are oob. And I'm happy with that. There are a couple of kits I'm building that I know personally, so I will go the extra mile to add the detail I know should be there, as I want it to reproduce what I know from the real thing. But that doesn't mean I will point out those details if I see someone else building the same kit.

If I'm building a Mig 21, I'll do it oob as I have no ref to the real thing, and I don't expect a mig expert to criticise me for doing so. Unless they are going to pay for the after market bits to make it 'correct' they should hold there tongue, and concentrate on their own builds.

At the end of the day, (it gets dark, lol) no plane/vehicle is the same in real life, so as far as I'm concerned, no one is really qualified to criticise some one else's work.

As the saying goes 'You wouldn't know, man. You weren't there'

My take on this subject has been tainted by many years in this hobby, but the bottom line is this, it is what it is, a model kit! What I do to it, and how I do it is up to me and as far as rivet counters go, well they aren't worth the time. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the hobby and other modeler's work, but at the end of the day it is just a model. I machine parts for rocket engines and have made hull penetrator covers for submarine hulls, these have to be perfect or the consequences can catastrophic, I use my micrometers and calipers for those parts, not my models. I have been to enough showes to see the best and worst of it; last show I went to one guy had an F-15 painted up in a fictious paint job, and stood by his model most of the day telling everyone in earshot how great it was, and it was nice, but really???? I had entered a Meng Japenese rocket plane (japan '46 kind of thing), painted in the training scheme of green over orange, simply because it looked cool, and I have a couple of models of REAL aircraft that were painted in that scheme so I just wanted to get a feel for how it would look and pratice a little weathering on it. These two dudes made a point of telling me how absurd it was that this model was painted in a training scheme?????? Seriously!!!!!! It is a fictious plane, never existed, who the hell really cares how it is painted????? or would it have been better to paint it in an operational scheme with squadron markings etc. when it was never in service because it had never been built??!!!
Yeah, so I build for myself, try to do a good job, and get a result I am happy with. If I choose to add to a kit it is because I want to, not because I have to for the model to meet someone elses ecpectations of accuracy. It is suppose to fun after all ??? Right??

You're right, Scruffy - FUN is the name of the game. If you make money out of it, it is WORK; if it costs money then it is either an ADDICTION or a HOBBY or in my case an addiction and a hobby!

PhildaFish wrote:You're right, Scruffy - FUN is the name of the game. If you make money out of it, it is WORK; if it costs money then it is either an ADDICTION or a HOBBY or in my case an addiction and a hobby!

Yeah, you got that right, hobby addiction

Well said guys !


To those of you out there, doing their best at replicating Historical models to their best of abilities.... I salute you ! Keep up the good work!
just don't over do it !!!

Those that are enjoying gluing and painting models for fun and don't take the hobby too seriously... I say Hello ! I am in the same boat !
after all ! it's just a model ! to most of us it is ! and to our friends or Wifes !!! it is just that ! They don't see it like we do !!! You have to agree with me on that ! (I hope?)

But I can speak from experience as I have been there, done that, got the T-Shirts and hats... and never liked the PITA. Donky A$$es.... that knows it all and made you feel like a POS or worse! at the end of the day... You went home and wanted to throw it all in the bin !

It took me a few years to get the point !!! I am a little Hard headed !!! "They" *not me* have missed the boat !!!
I have come to realization that: They no longer enjoy the hobby!
*They can't appreciate a well assembled model for what it is! and apply their JUDGMENT on those facts!
*They can't no longer appreciate a very well painted and weathered model for what it is...! a great canvas ! and give points on that alone! But they sure can find faults and idiosyncrasies ! since they know it all !!! and those very few of them that play the Rule book to the letter! Get recognition ! and sometimes.... it digs deep !

You go home and show your wife... your Ribbons, Block of wood, maybe a plaque ? and those hundreds of dollars you have spent on yourself for that Mere Ribbon some dude gave you !!! or maybe a Honourable Mention !!! wow ! ""Close but no Cigar I called it !!!""

The Journey is what is important and all those BIG Model Contests and their IPMS RULES have all but Ruined the experience !
the love for the hobby !!! That we all had as kids ! and now ... as more Matured men are trying to go back to... but at what expense ?
( not all of us ) LOL We are not all like that ? but many fall in the trap ! and many fail ! and many fade away and never come back ! because they never felt the love and camaraderie we can all share and boast ! like what we have here in ISM !!!

I fought my way to the top and once I got it !!! "I retired" ! simple as that ! I played their game and ran my Hobby room per their rules and they actually Killed my love for the hobby for Years...

it took a long time for me to Re-Kindle the warm cozy feeling I had for styrene... once I convinced myself the Haters and Know it all were the ones ruining it for me !!! I drew a line in the sand and said ! Never again ! I am free !!!

and now.... since I don't Care anymore.... I enjoy it ! Love it ! and share it ! maybe you think I am a little weird ! but
Since then !!! I am a much better person and don't mind sharing secrets and techniques in order to get more guys to join clubs like ISM
and boast a better Modelling community !

I go to model shows still !!! don't get me wrong !
I mostly take pictures of the Models in some local and regional Model shows ! I don't compete anymore... and I feel free ! I No longer have to abide by their RULES and I find it does a lot of good to someones MIND ! let me tell you ! no pressure ! No stress ! just pure enjoyment !

Not trying to kill the fun out of competing... some of us like it ! and some of us like it even more when they place up in the 1st tier! in front of those Nagging Bas....ds ! LOL TAKE THAT !!! but I don't get off that anymore..... I saw how FIXED some of those events are and ..... its all driven by the $$$ and whom you know ! at the end of the day we all go home with our Plastic Models!

So I rather go! spend my cash on some Cool and Obscure Model at a vendor's Table and go home... ! With my Psych intact !

LOL !

Enough Blah blah !!!
my 2 Canadian Cents !!!

Enjoy the hobby guys for what it is !

Norm.

^^ LIKE!

What he said!

EXACTLY!!!!!