Oh no, does a stash pile make me a despised Collector?

Post by **OneSmallStep1966** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:58 pm

I saw this comment in another thread and it struck a cord...

Akula1959 wrote:As I see modeling (and other things as well) as a hobby, the whole 'collector' lot can go toodle off and soak their heads in quick lime. It has made the costs of the hobby insane.

Coming from a Real Space modelling background, sourcing long out-of-production (OOP) kits and paying a pretty penny for them was the norm, mostly due to the low numbers of cottage industries making Real Space kits.
When my interests expanded to AFV modelling I thought lack of kit availability was a thing of the past, after all, mass production by big companies would ensure plentiful supply...boy was I wrong

I've had no choice but to pay high prices for some of the AFV kits I desire and this has in turn given me a mindset of buying new AFV kits on impulse in case they become unavailable if/when I want to build them and I wonder if this has turned me in to one of the "collectors" that has cost me so much and I despise

So a question, do any of you with stash piles feel guilt for buying kits that you "might build" and by doing so deprive others the opertunity to own/build them?

Post by **Avgas** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:17 pm

Stuff is worth what people are willing to pay for it. A plastic model has little or no intrinsic value so I guess you could say we are the authors of our own downfall.

As to stashes, I can't see a problem if you are intending to build the stuff. I have around five years worth of kits, I intend building them all but I don't want anymore as I'm at the age when people peg out at little notice and I don't want to leave the wife/kids with a mountain of kits that they don't know the value of or what to do with.

Post by **Coen** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:19 pm

It only makes you a collector if you have no intention of building them and only plan to sit on them till the price goes up and resell them to the needy for silly prices.
Myself, I don't buy kits that I have no plans to build.
So it's not an issue for me, every kit that I have or will buy has a build planned for it. I just haven't caught up to the end of the line yet.
If I decide that I won't build one because plans have changed or I just plain don't want to build something, I'll sell it for what I paid for it or I'll give it away.

Post by **Lysus** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:19 pm

Avgas and Coen have both summed up my feelings already, and I'm a person who didn't touch a kit since '93 yet still bought some along the way. Now that time and circumstance have allowed me to really try to learn the hobby, they're all marked for assembly some day...

My wife has standing orders to bin them or sell them off if I go before I finish them, they're just things and once I'm gone I won't care. I mean, kits are "stuff" and some people will like to buy them just to look at them, or whatever. And that's great. You do you, man.

I came to the conclusion years ago that life is too short to get up in a wad about how green the grass is in my neighbor's yard, or what I could have but don't, and so on. Nor am I overly attached to anything on my shelf that I've not gotten to, yet.

In short, I'm more Lebowski than Walter and I don't see any point in getting too angry about what other people do.

Post by **Willem** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:36 pm

Lysus makes a great point; they are just things.

There will always be collectors. I think it's almost a psychological condition. I don't hate collectors, instead I feel sympathy.

I buy with the intention to build but my buying outstrips my building. Recently however I've tried to rationalise this as I am the wrong side of 40 and (given my build rate) I probably own enough to see me out.

Think about how the hobby has changed over the last two, five, ten years. There will always be classic legendary kits but the pace of output and innovation is exponential. Some amazing kits are being released every year. It's hard to resist the temptation sometimes.

Post by **Avgas** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:05 pm

or what I could have but don't,

Well, as someone a lot wiser than me once said, 'Don't want what you haven't got, want what you have.'

Post by **InitialProduction1** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:10 pm

Every kit I've ever bought I had a dio in my head, I've opened all of them, except for some tigers, only because I'm a tiger nut. My prize is the 6253, but I bought the Atak zim for it, just so I can build 007, I have over 230 kits, over 20 years of marriage, might have had some longer, and I have a Old wooden box with my tore apart kits, three wine boxes with tons of spare parts, but I call myself a collector, what ever makes you happy then there you go. Life's good.

Post by **digger303** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:00 am

i must be a collector , cause I buy more than I build. They might stop making them after all ! this has happened to me so ya can't have to many ....haahh

Post by **d6mst0** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:42 am

No, don't feel guilty at all.

Post by **Akula1959** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:24 am

I was referring to those 'collectors' who are in it to drive the said prices up. Granted this in more other hobbies and games than perhaps in modelling, still it frustrates us Welfare modelers.

DonP

Post by **Lysus** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:45 am

Akula1959 wrote:I was referring to those 'collectors' who are in it to drive the said prices up. Granted this in more other hobbies and games than perhaps in modelling, still it frustrates us Welfare modelers.

DonP

You mean like Warhammer, DnD, etc.? Where like having the actual tank or Lich on the table matters and some yahoo has 15 on a shelf with no intention of building and fielding them?

Then yes, they're jerks

Post by **Coen** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:09 am

It's still a very common thing in our hobby. I know a few fellas that have stashes with 5,000 or more kits.
Some just horde them and barely build anything, others have a vigourous buy and sell operation of collector kits and build almost nothing anymore. Thier hobby seems to be to make ours more expensive. Though they refuse to see that side effect.

Post by **d6mst0** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:24 am

I wouldn't know what is a collector kit or not. My family and friends wouldn't know if that model was from a collector kit or not. I purchase a kit based on the subjects I like to have, kit reviews, etc, but I do make the best effort to purchase it at the lowest price. I most likely have more kits then I will complete, but how do you know? Here today, gone tomorrow.
I cannot condemn a person for hording kits. The market is what it is.

Post by **MarkVerploeg** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:40 pm

I don't think you would be a collector of kits if you have a stash
i have about 70 to 80 kits waiting to be build
and that is the reason i have them ,i want to build whatever subject it is in that box
I have to admit that i do buy a kit in the pre sale stage sometimes but that is more often for the discount and to make sure i will get that kit (like some rarely produced Dragon kits)
but i have seen a lot of sales items online where some guy asks for a amount of money that is atleast 5 times the original retail price
and that to me is nuts
i have bought 2 kits that are called rare or less availble but that was only because with one i had a major discount because he opened and removed all the bags and the other one is out of production for several years
but they both came at a reasonable price
if not then i wouldn't have bought them

Post by **Avgas** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:36 pm

You think modellers have it bad. A new Les Paul Standard guitar will set you back about £1300, depending on spec. A 1959 Les Paul will set you back around £500,000. What's the difference? Not a lot, certainly not £498,700 quids worth. That's what collecting has done for guitars.

Post by **Stokesy44** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:41 pm

I have 8 kits in my stash and I sleep just fine!

The only reason I have a stash at all is EP>BT+/-DT=LS - where EP is Enthusiasm to Purchase and is greater than BT which is Build Tempo adjusted by DT which is Delta (meaning change) in Taste (what I fancy building) = LS which is Level of Stash.

I have no strategy and since coming back to the hobby my interest has increased to include armour. A collector I am not. A flirt, maybe as I'm always changing my mind and I don't know what I want.

Although I will say this. Lord help me when Dragon start releasing their Star Wars stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by **digger303** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:17 pm

I see a lot of kits for sale described as collectors items or vintage with a price to match. Although I always thought there was more dreaming involved than realality. Someone hoping for the big find of treasure hoping it is a valuable piece. I'm sure some must be rare, but not as much as some hope.
But I don't really know, I just do what I do for me that makes me pleased.

Post by **Damonkh** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:29 pm

All great responses. For myself, I get kits and put them into my stash for the purpose of building. I am looking toward my retirement years. I don't want to be one of those men who become aimless couch potatoes. I've been buy kits since about '95 and storing them. Last year I stumbled upon about 80 kits at a second hand store and offered 100.00 for the lot. I took 'em all home. My wife hit the ceiling and told me to get busy building as we have run out of storage room according to her. (Of course I just looked around at her 1000+ stuffed bears and said nothing).

The way I look at it is that we work hard all our lives. When we go, we can't take it with us, but while we're here we may as well enjoy what we can while we can. If I get to a point I cannot be at the bench any more I will sell every thing I have to others at a VERY reasonable price.

I will want others to enjoy what I no longer can. Until then, plastic on and don't fret about "collecting".

Everyone has their own hobby and will enjoy it, so why can't we?

Post by **Lysus** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:58 pm

Coen wrote:It's still a very common thing in our hobby. I know a few fellas that have stashes with 5,000 or more kits.
Some just horde them and barely build anything, others have a vigourous buy and sell operation of collector kits and build almost nothing anymore. Thier hobby seems to be to make ours more expensive. Though they refuse to see that side effect.

I think what Akula is referring to is a little different, though. It's like if a rich person--who doesn't own a football team--bought up 8 of the top 10 football players and then kept them in his garage.

I still maintain that it isn't worth getting too upset about, but in the special scenario Akula is talking about, there's room for some outrage, yes. I'm just glad I wasn't into comics in the 80's and 90's. Talk about collectors ruining all the fun...

Post by **Coen** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:48 pm

I know of two fellas, that I won't name, that will buy up ten to twenty of a specific kit and put them away because they know in four or five years they can resel them for 30-50% more.
There are Facebook pages dedicated to dudes that do it too.
That's the crap that burns my arse.

Post by **Lysus** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:57 pm

Coen wrote:I know of two fellas, that I won't name, that will buy up ten to twenty of a specific kit and put them away because they know in four or five years they can resel them for 30-50% more.
There are Facebook pages dedicated to dudes that do it too.
That's the crap that burns my arse.

Well, if I ever win the lottery that I never play, I'll buy up a zillion kits and resell at 10% MSRP. I'm sure that'll be perfectly legal. Just to watch those two dudes cry.

Post by **Paul** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:21 pm

At the end of the day, if you have 2 or 200 kits in your stash (i have 240+ btw) who cares, its your money to do with as you please so whether you buying to build, collect or as an investment who cares. As long as your happy in what you do thats all that matters

Post by **OneSmallStep1966** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:01 pm

Thanks everyone, all good answers but I'd like to throw another question open that created a really heated debate in the real space modelling community.

As I said at the beginning of this thread, many real space models are made in very small volume by cottage industry (often a single person) and a lot of those companies have disappeared over time and what has happened (in some instances) recast copies were made by individuals who sell them cheaply on eBay.
Obviously this pissed off (Big time) those people who still had original kits, citing copyright infringement/theft, but I never saw a recast kit of anything from a manufacturer still in business, and while I know it might not be ethical, being able to buy recast copies allowed me to add what were completely unavailable kits to my collection (see my real space gallery in the gallery section, most of the Reheat figures are recasts).
So, if an OOP resin upgrade you wanted became available from a dubious source, would you still buy it?

Post by **Stokesy44** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:11 pm

Coen wrote:I know of two fellas, that I won't name, that will buy up ten to twenty of a specific kit and put them away because they know in four or five years they can resel them for 30-50% more.
There are Facebook pages dedicated to dudes that do it too.
That's the crap that burns my arse.

I think there's something just a little craven about those kind of people. Hoarding to take advantage of future demand and selling at inflated prices. I get the feeling these people wouldn't piss on their own grandparents if they were on fire.

Its also why I don't watch The Apprentice.

Post by **gazmat** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:12 pm

People who hoard to make a profit from a "rare" kit...I personally won't give them the time of the day, or my hard earned cash..because its rare, does not make it more expensive than the original price, its a few sprues of plastic for f%ck sake, there are more than ample subjects to fulfil my needs, and I have no need to line their greedy pockets....rant over!!

Post by **wookiee76** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:13 pm

It's your money so as long as the family don't go without and all the bills get paid, go for it.
I have a small stash of models that i will build, I've set myself a limited space for storage so I'm pretty much at the point where i have to build one to buy one, fortunately I'm a fairly rapid builder!

Post by **pir8hntr** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:37 am

To be honest, I did not try to stir anything up or cause any dissension in the ranks with my original post about Fantastic Plastic and collectors losing money and my agreement with a follow up post. So I apologize to everyone that I might have offended. To quote the great Jerry Springer, "Take care of yourself and each other."
pir8hntr

Post by **OneSmallStep1966** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:53 am

pir8hntr wrote:To be honest, I did not try to stir anything up or cause any dissension in the ranks with my original post about Fantastic Plastic and collectors losing money and my agreement with a follow up post. So I apologize to everyone that I might have offended. To quote the great Jerry Springer, "Take care of yourself and each other."
pir8hntr

You didn't stir anything up, just ignited an interesting debate.
I think everyone is in agreement that those who buy with the intention to build (regardless if they ever do or not) are fine and it's only those who buy (usually more than one if the same kit) with the sole intention of selling later for a profit are scum.

Post by **digger303** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:53 am

To take another view point,it might be said that just by buying they are helping the industry manufactures to prosper and in doing so help us all. With regards tthe collector selling no one forces you to buy that high priced kit, but by doing so you in turn support the collector to support the manufacturer. If the manufacturer has enough sales to start with they will do another production run.
Just playing devils advocated.......now I must take a quick holiday until the dust settles.

Post by **Akula1959** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:32 pm

I have nothing against folks who buy and hold on 'to build it later'. HECK, if I had the cash I would myself have a stash, well a bigger stash...

Does 2 kits constitute a stash? I will get around to making them when I get tools etc. Now I open them up and drool over the sprues.

I can even see buying say 4 Tigers to get the various types. Neither of these grades of hoarder/stasher folks do I consider a 'collector'.

DonP

Post by **digger303** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:15 pm

Akula1959 wrote:I have nothing against folks who buy and hold on 'to build it later'. HECK, if I had the cash I would myself have a stash, well a bigger stash... Does 2 kits constitute a stash? I will get around to making them when I get tools etc. Now I open them up and drool over the sprues. I can even see buying say 4 Tigers to get the various types. Neither of these grades of hoarder/stasher folks do I consider a 'collector'.

DonP

your on your way to being the owner of a bigger stash. I can discern the attitude...your hooked...welcome aboard.

Post by **mannloon** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:37 am

I have roughly 70-80 dragon kits in the stash. And a steady pile of review sample kits, after market and such that seems to grow by the day. I never wantd to build a stash, but i think i just learned how to find deals and i see it as saving money because as some have said it may fetch a premium in the future. Which is absolute dog's dangly bits, i don't mind having a stash because i will build them. But i wish i would stop allowing it to get larger and convincing myself it's not madness. Collector no, addict yes.

Post by **digger303** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:22 am

mannloon wrote:I have roughly 70-80 dragon kits in the stash. And a steady pile of review sample kits, after market and such that seems to grow by the day. I never wantd to build a stash, but i think i just learned how to find deals and i see it as saving money because as some have said it may fetch a premium in the future. Which is absolute dog's dangly bits, i don't mind having a stash because i will build them. But i wish i would stop allowing it to get larger and convincing myself it's not madness. Collector no, addict yes.

That's a fine line your drawing........

Post by **MarkVerploeg** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:03 pm

digger303 wrote:
mannloon wrote:I have roughly 70-80 dragon kits in the stash. And a steady pile of review sample kits, after market and such that seems to grow by the day. I never wantd to build a stash, but i think i just learned how to find deals and i see it as saving money because as some have said it may fetch a premium in the future. Which is absolute dog's dangly bits, i don't mind having a stash because i will build them. But i wish i would stop allowing it to get larger and convincing myself it's not madness. Collector no, addict yes.
That's a fine line your drawing........

Maybe but he has a good expailation and reason why
and i would have to agree with him
I do the same really and i have a bunch of kits that i got for prices between 10 and 30 euro's for Dragon kits while those same kits retail at 40 to 60 euro's
but i don't buy them just because they are cheaper then normal
it has to be a kit that i have on the wishlist or like the subject
if they are just cheap but i don't think i would build it then i leave it for another modeller

Post by **JimJ** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:14 pm

Started out to build ** ONE ** Large Scale ( 1:16 ) Armor kit for fun with my grandson........that morphed into a total, (so far), of thirteen kits across three scales. I think it definitely falls into the "addiction" category - LOL

Post by **Akula1959** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:26 pm

digger303 wrote:your on your way to being the owner of a bigger stash. I can discern the attitude...your hooked...welcome aboard.

Why thank you! I feel honoured to be included. *unrolls a scroll 5 yards long*

I want to thank the Academy, my friends, and all of ISM...

DonP

Post by **digger303** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:37 pm

Akula1959 wrote:
digger303 wrote:your on your way to being the owner of a bigger stash. I can discern the attitude...your hooked...welcome aboard.
Why thank you! I feel honoured to be included. *unrolls a scroll 5 yards long*

I want to thank the Academy, my friends, and all of ISM...

DonP

Post by **digger303** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:49 pm

MarkVerploeg wrote:
digger303 wrote:
mannloon wrote:I have roughly 70-80 dragon kits in the stash. And a steady pile of review sample kits, after market and such that seems to grow by the day. I never wantd to build a stash, but i think i just learned how to find deals and i see it as saving money because as some have said it may fetch a premium in the future. Which is absolute dog's dangly bits, i don't mind having a stash because i will build them. But i wish i would stop allowing it to get larger and convincing myself it's not madness. Collector no, addict yes.
That's a fine line your drawing........
Maybe but he has a good explanation and reason why
and i would have to agree with him
I do the same really and i have a bunch of kits that i got for prices between 10 and 30 euro's for Dragon kits while those same kits retail at 40 to 60 euro's
but i don't buy them just because they are cheaper then normal
it has to be a kit that i have on the wishlist or like the subject
if they are just cheap but i don't think i would build it then i leave it for another modeller

I have a stash come collection of around 220 kits and it all stems from me wanting to have that and that one and so on. I like you never started with the idea that I wanted a stash.....it just comes with the territory. But I can see why those outside the fraternity can see the silliness of it, BUT I am not about to change what I do in MY hobby and some kits do not stay available for ever. I generally only have one of each and my wishlist is dramatically smaller now. My latest, I want is Takom's "BIG BERTHA" and I don't think that is unreasonable even if I have many inbuilt kits and storage room is coming under the eye of the missus.

PS.... I fully intend to build them all......maybe when I come back risen from the dead.....

Post by **JimJ** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:44 am

digger303 wrote:PS.... I fully intend to build them all......maybe when I come back risen from the dead.....

I'm kind of using that logic for motivation/justification for myself........I'm telling myself I HAVE TO stay around until I get them ALL built

Post by **MightyDraw** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:23 am

digger303 wrote:To take another view point,it might be said that just by buying they are helping the industry manufactures to prosper and in doing so help us all. With regards tthe collector selling no one forces you to buy that high priced kit, but by doing so you in turn support the collector to support the manufacturer. If the manufacturer has enough sales to start with they will do another production run.
Just playing devils advocated.......now I must take a quick holiday until the dust settles.

I think this is a very interesting question; I suspect my local hobby shop might have to close if they only sold kits to people who were going to rush home and build it. I'm sure in the past this may have been possible; given the greater prevalence of model building among the youth demographic. I suspect that kit manufacturers now, especially ones catering to us 'serious' modelers, stay in the black based at least partially on the desire on the part of many of us to buy duplicates and stash them etc. When I visit my parents and I am near the hobby shop I frequented as a kid I'll pop in and buy a kit, not because I know I'm going to build it soon but rather I like them still being in business so I buy one and stash it!

Post by **wookiee76** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:46 am

Had someone tell me that a certain kit was worth several hundreds of pounds the other day, didn't like my response of no, it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, same goes for anything really, do you really need that oop dragon kit when the new version (admittedly without some of the shiny parts) is a better, more finely detailed kit and even adding a metric ton of aftermarket will still be less outlay?

Post by **Coen** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:58 am

That very same argument is why I don't do commission work nor do I sell my builds.
It's funny, devaluing a collectors stash to totally not cool (according to most

) but devaluing an artist's work is.
I've no idea how or why that is... But it is.

Post by **wookiee76** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:07 pm

All part of the human condition i fear.