Aussie Vietnam armour paint

[Augustus]

I have a couple of bits of armour used by Aussies in Vietnam, AFV Clubs Centurion and Academy's M113. AFV have the colour as Olive Drab and Academy has Forest Green.

My question is would both vehicles have been the same colour? And if so which colour is correct US Olive Drab (Vietnam era) or Foerest Green?

While we're on the subject, what colour would the uniforms be?

[DownUnderDan]

There is some discussion on Australian M113 colours at the bottom of the page on this link;
http://armorama.com/modules.php?op=modl ... 084&page=1

My memories of my dads army uniforms of that time, was the combat uniform was in the same tonal range as the US army Vietnam era uniforms of the time, but seemed overall slightly lighter. While the uniforms were similar, you could spot the Aussie straight away as they had less of a dark green in them, like they were already prefaded. The Aussie get up would also fade after field use and washing, so colour variation from shirts to pants to webbing, wasn't that unusual. It was subtle but it was there. The link below will give you some good ideas of the colours as the uniforms in the photos all look to be new old stock and not worn.

http://www.vietnam-airsoft.com/phpBB3/v ... 8&start=60

If you do the variation of the uniform seen worn in the photos by a MP, its worth noting that the black belt he is wearing is highly polished as would be his boots. The brass on the belt is also polished. This was the variation of the uniform (sans slouch hat for the most part) I remember my dad wearing the most during that era.

The standard dress uniform of the army back then when not in the field was the same colours as the British Army. Main difference back then was peaked caps were worn by NCO's and officers, where in the modern Australian army the slouch hat seems to get more of a showing. Back in the 60's and 70's I only saw my dad wear a slouch hat for parades and when on other kind of duties or when out with the public. Not sure about the rules, but I know it wasn't an everyday wear thing by any means. As an NCO for example he would have a cap around the base with the combat uniform and the soft hat (not sure its name) when in the field (sometimes).

From memory the tanks were Australian spec Olive Drab. The army had been switching over to it from the mid 60's or so. Here is a good picture to show what I mean.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct= ... 7020586217


There was some variation in the greens for the Land Rovers and other vehicles at the time as the orginals of those were painted ex factory in the older Bronze Green. I saw them in some gloss finish and some darker green, but my memories of the vehicles in Puckapunyal as a kid, was the M113's and Centurions were all Olive Drab in a semi mat finish when freshly painted, but faded under Aussie sun to a mat finish pretty quickly. The fading was consistent across the armour, so basically they just looked painted mat finish. I do seem to recall a darker green on some M113's but I cant be sure about that. Maybe ambulance version? Not sure. I could be getting confused with Army Landrover Ambulances of the time.

Sea foam green was the interior colour I do remember in M113's. They used to trundle past my house as a kid and I saw the insides of then regularly enough at Christmas parties and the like. We got to ride around in one for one Christmas.

AK Interactive make a set for modern Aussie armour like the Bushmaster, that has the modern Olive Drab now known as Olive Drab Lusterless in the set. Its a pretty good match for the original colour from the 60's too. By the time you put a slight sheen to it and then weather it back down again, you would be well within the colour range of what the Australian armour use to carry back then. There was some variation with painting and refits, especially for stuff like the M113's which were mostly ex US army stock and then refitted and refurbished to varying degrees while the Vietnam war was on. Most of that stuff didn't get standardised until well into the 70's and some vehicles seemed immune to any refurbishment until retirement. Never did figure out what the reasoning was.

Some vehicles would also carry some colourful markings when returned from Vietnam for a while. They would have the potentially offensive stuff painted out, but other markings might live on for a while and the fresh paint to cover stuff up meant they were a bit multicoloured. I remember quite a few Land Rovers had the silhouette of a rooster painted in red on the doors for example. I particularly liked that, so its stuck in my head, but I do know other vehicles had slight differences, I just can't remember them now. Most of these differences would suddenly show up on returned vehicles and then fairly quickly disappear.

http://ak-interactive.com/v2/?product=a ... ge-colours

The only other thing I can tell you is most of the Centurions that got rotated over to Vietnam were by the end of it, all pretty knackered. Wasn't long after that conflict, they had all been replaced with the then new German Leopard tank.

M113's however soldiered on until only a few years ago, with numerous updates of course, but still easily recognisable as what they are. Where I used to live in country NSW we had a parade and the army was given the keys to the city for the day. I have some photos somewhere of the River Lancers final parade with the M113's there before they transferred their colours to the new Bushmasters. They even had a M113 restored to Vietnam era colours and fit out for the event. Boy didn't hearing that trundle down the road to the parade, bring back some childhood memories! I will see if I can find the pictures of them, especially the older spec M113 and I will post them if I do.

Hope some of this is helpful.

Dan

[Augustus]

Wow Dan thanks for taking the time to post all that, it's very helpful.

I've always been fascinated by the Vietnam war. I'm a POM originally, moving out here, twenty and a bit years ago. Growing up watching TV coverage of different wars that were all being fought in cities or terrain I could visualise, but Vietnam was different, seeing all the dense jungle etc seemed more liked a different planet to a kid from East London. Also it was a war the Brits weren't involved in. It would be great if you could find and post those photos.

Anyway back to the paint, I've seen that set by AK but never saying what actual colour names were in there, might have to get me some. The only other time I've seen Olive Drab Lustreless was by Mouse Armour(?) who do an enamel paint and a set I think, see below. I don't know how accurate they are.

Thanks again for the great post.

[WMH]

G'day Augustus
The Mouse House Paints are are matched to actual Original samples of the Protec Pty Ltd (current contractor producing AUSCAM DPP). The olive drab Lusterless is the same colour code as used in November 1967 . So the answer is they are accurate.

As For the Centurion in Vietnam it would depend on the period you wish to depict . Centurions arriving in Vietnam from January 1968 were painted in the newly chosen Australian colour the olive Drab lusterless that replaced the British Standard 1964 BS381c. At the end of 1968 it was directed that equipment be repainted in Olive drab semi gloss. So during late 1968 and part of 1969 Centurions could be seen in either old British or newer Australian Olive Drab colours.

REF: Military Briefs No.3 - Australian Centurions in Vietnam By Shane Lovell
Ref: Australian Military Vehicles Research (Mouse House Enterprises, Australia)

[Augustus]

Cheers for that Shane, it's the Lustreless O/D colour that I'm after in acrylic.