H&S Ultra spitting.

[jmurphy18]

Spitting Question: I was shooting primer yesterday afternoon. (75 deg, Dew Point 68 Humidity ~ 75%) Compressor at 28 psi or 2 bar. I shot 4 spoons and on the 4th spoon I got some spitting. I had not even started stared trying to spray my small bits yet and I was getting spitting. It was building up around the air cap on a H&S Ultimate. I was actually getting a little puddle.

I had the .4mm needle and nozzle installed as I read here that you wanted to use a larger needle for primer. I had drained the moisture trap (Grex compressor) prior to starting. Primer was Mr Color finishing 1500 with Mr Color leveling thinner thinner 1:2. I cleaned the airbrush twice and this still happened. Now for reference I want back to my .2mm needle and nozzle and I was able to lay down the primer no issues. Here is the .2mm for reference

I actually worked for over an hour and did 4 coats flawlessly. Any thought on the issue with the .4mm needle? No I do not have the pinch cap for either needle. I have ordered one for the .2 but not the .4.
FYI here is what my Grex looks like notice the exposed needle

[digger303]

Spitting Question: I was shooting primer yesterday afternoon. (75 deg, Dew Point 68 Humidity ~ 75%) Compressor at 28 psi or 2 bar. I shot 4 spoons and on the 4th spoon I got some spitting. I had not even started stared trying to spray my small bits yet and I was getting spitting. It was building up around the air cap on a H&S Ultimate. I was actually getting a little puddle.

I had the .4mm needle and nozzle installed as I read here that you wanted to use a larger needle for primer. I had drained the moisture trap (Grex compressor) prior to starting. Primer was Mr Color finishing 1500 with Mr Color leveling thinner thinner 1:2. I cleaned the airbrush twice and this still happened. Now for reference I want back to my .2mm needle and nozzle and I was able to lay down the primer no issues. Here is the .2mm for reference

I actually worked for over an hour and did 4 coats flawlessly. Any thought on the issue with the .4mm needle? No I do not have the pinch cap for either needle. I have ordered one for the .2 but not the .4.
FYI here is what my Grex looks like notice the exposed needle

''Primer was Mr Color finishing 1500 with Mr Color leveling thinner thinner 1:2.''

I normally thin this 50/50 not 33/66 as you said in your post and I use a 0.3mm needle in my Paarsch Talon. I have found contrary to your experience that it doesn't flow well with a 0.2 in my evolution and will spit. That's maybe because it's air consumption is low. It will spit with the 0.3mm needle in the Talon as well if it is too thick the paint won't atomize properly and collects at tip into globules then spits.

[Twokidsnosleep]

Ya it was a bit thick for me too..I am at 50:50 with that MLT and mr colour stuff
Plus I would boost the pressure to at least 30 psi...I cheat and crank it to 40 and have a Mac valve that I dial up or down until I like how it sprays. My apex spat like that with Ultimate primers until I boosted the pressure

[jmurphy18]

Thanks so much Digger! The info really helps. I had been priming with my Grex and that has a .3mm needle. That one, last pic the needle sticks so far out that not much collects on the ring around the tip

Ok guys I will mix the next batch @ 1:1. I will also bring the pressure up on the compressor. I have a G-Max valve so I can adjust the pressure on the fly & probably had it down a bit. I did notice the air flow was higher with the .2mm needle than with the .4mm even when I adjusted the pressure.
I might have to invest in the pinch cap also. What do you think Scott? I know you have this brush
https://spraygunner.com/air-cap-0-4mm-c ... cr-chrome/

[Twokidsnosleep]

@jmurphy18 the pinch cap lets you clean the needle from build up a bit easier
For longer spray sessions, which is rare for me, I have Q tip ready wet with appropriate diluent for the paint and just do a spin into the needle and tip to wipe and clean it off

Ya I mess with the Mac valve a fair bit until I like the air flow and spray patter as I test with diluent required for the paint before loading up the paint cup.
You are reminding me to dry out my primary filter on the Grex tank. I have a small secondary one right on my line...super important when you are doing 2k as you cannot have moisture contamination or it goes wonky fast

[MarkSzeman]

Just curious about the Grex, do you have any problems with that ? asking because from that photo the needle tip looks slightly bent.

[Twokidsnosleep]

Ya it does have a bit of a curve up...run it on a bit of wood, usually straightens it out
I saw a demo of that in video somewhere, will search
...ahh it was LEE who did It

[jmurphy18]

Thanks so much Scott! Think I will save my $$ right now as I am using the .2mm most of the time and I will wait & see what I think of the one that is coming in the mail.

I should explained the hour spray period. I have not learned “flash” periods on paints except Splash paint their website read 2-3 min. Primer I wait 10-15 min between coats and acrylic I wait 10 min between coats. I just got my 1st bottle of Lacquer paint and have not sprayed any yet. So as you can see 3-4 coats can take an hour or more.

I never thought about spraying thinner to adjust the pattern & valve. I will give that a whirl. I always do a test spray before I shoot. That is what that dark spot is in the lower right corner. If it is going to chock, spit or spotter I want it to do it there not on the model or parts!

I took my water trap apart today & dumped the water. I had a small amount of residual in the bottom. I need to get a water trap on my airline. They are back ordered at SprayGunner $12 for the in-line filter and 10’ Of hose so it is a good price. I just have to take the Mac valve off the Grex line

[jmurphy18]

Mark. I never noticed it! Ok I will admit the very 1st day I had the airbrush it fell out of the Grex holder onto the garage floor. That is why I bough a better one & modified it to fit my side loader. I did not see any damage. Guess that is when this happened. That was March 2nd. So no never noticed any issues.

Thanks Scott. I will try that tomorrow. I have some Cocobolo in the garage I can roll it on

[Twokidsnosleep]

Mark. I never noticed it! Ok I will admit the very 1st day I had the airbrush it fell out of the Grex holder onto the garage floor. That is why I bough a better one & modified it to fit my side loader. I did not see any damage. Guess that is when this happened. That was March 2nd. So no never noticed any issues.

Thanks Scott. I will try that tomorrow. I have some Cocobolo in the garage I can roll it on

Perfect, love cocobolo

Here is what I put on my Grex
Mac valve and Quick disconnects for all brushes...cheap on eBay or Amazon


Secondary moisture trap/filter





It looks heavy but is fine

[jmurphy18]

Thank you Scott. I do have a Mac valve. When I bought an airbrush I purchased a kit. I had an Aztec from ~ 15 years ago that was missing parts and I put away dirty. ( I was painting RC cars & it never worked really well.) I got the Grex GCK02 which came with the side feed airbrush TS style,
Mac valve http://www.grexusa.com/grexairbrush/G-MAC.php5, hose and compressor. Grex Kit. Looks like I just need to find that water trap and add to my setup.

[jmurphy18]

Ya it was a bit thick for me too..I am at 50:50 with that MLT and mr colour stuff
Plus I would boost the pressure to at least 30 psi...I cheat and crank it to 40 and have a Mac valve that I dial up or down until I like how it sprays. My apex spat like that with Ultimate primers until I boosted the pressure

Ok guys I took your advice to heart today.
Mark thanks I was able to fix the needle on the Grex with the info Scott posted. thanks guys

I did a mix of white 1500 finishing primer and Mr leveling Thinner 1:1. Got crap again. Spit city and filled the cup ad needle with junk

I tried to get the Grex compressor to 40 Scott with the .4mm needle. No go :cr Unloaded I get ~ 50 lbs. loaded (I.e. holding air valve ) 32 -34. Mostly 32.
Now the Grex & .3mm will climb to 40 as will the H&S & the .2mm
The H&S with the .4mm spit agin with the pressure as high as I could get it to go higher I need another compressor or or a water trap and adaptor for my big compressor. That one goes to 125 psi no issue, but is loud as crap. Porter cable unit for my nail guns. It is also setup wit quick disconnect fittings in the 1/2’ size so I would need to reduce

FYI I shot paint with a .2mm needle with no issues @ 28 psi . Just not sure what to think here. Except I need another drink!

Now I shot the mix with a .2mm needle no issue and with the Grex no problem. Not sure why I am trying a bigger needlewhen what I have works ...... frustration talking

Thank you both for the help. I think this is like my water drop photography. One min it works fine, take a break it It goes to heck in a hand basket

[digger303]

At least something works. I leave mine on 20psi as it is quiet thin when mixed 50/50.
Your description just sounds weird, it should be giving you more problems with the smaller needle. The fact that it sprays ok with the small needle means your thinning ratio works.
You are changing the nozzle when changing the needle ? ...because they do have to be matched.
Best of luck cause I'm running out of ideas.

[jmurphy18]

At least something works. I leave mine on 20psi as it is quiet thin when mixed 50/50.
Your description just sounds weird, it should be giving you more problems with the smaller needle. The fact that it sprays ok with the small needle means your thinning ratio works.
You are changing the nozzle when changing the needle ? ...because they do have to be matched.
Best of luck cause I'm running out of ideas.

Thanks Digger!! I can try the lower pressure just to say I tried it. You are so right it is thin. It is like water. Flowed out back & by the lever it was so thin. Lol on the match. er what I meant is why am I going from .2mm to .4mm when .2mm is working....
I know in my mind that primer is more viscous fluid but it sure does not act like it

Thank so much for your ideas !

[Twokidsnosleep]

This is water contamination into 2k clear...completely solved with the second in line filter

[Kevthemodeller]

Have you checked/cleaned the inside of the nozzle? Spitting can often be to the needle not sealing/sitting correctly in the nozzle. This can be caused by a small amount of paint built up in sided the nozzle, H & S do a tool to clean the inside of the nozzle look Here seventh one down

[Twokidsnosleep]

Have you checked/cleaned the inside of the nozzle? Spitting can often be to the needle not sealing/sitting correctly in the nozzle. This can be caused by a small amount of paint built up in sided the nozzle, H & S do a tool to clean the inside of the nozzle look Here seventh one down

Good suggestion bud
That thing looks viscous and sharp Kev
I would go with a dental proximal cleaner and dental paper points...but then that is me
I showed those in my cleaning your airbrush videos I did

[MarkSzeman]

Have you checked/cleaned the inside of the nozzle? Spitting can often be to the needle not sealing/sitting correctly in the nozzle. This can be caused by a small amount of paint built up in sided the nozzle, H & S do a tool to clean the inside of the nozzle look Here seventh one down

Ouch , that looks like something Predator would have in his medical kit Thanks for the pointer on that one, been looking for one myself

[Kevthemodeller]

That thing looks viscous and sharp Kev

It is and it works, had similar issues and this sorted it The important thing is to properly clean the needle/nozzle after each session, if left for a a day or two with just a flush clean, it will slowly build up a paint layer inside the nozzle tip. This is the cause of alsorts of issues

Thanks for the pointer on that one, been looking for one myself

Your most welcome.

[digger303]

That thing looks viscous and sharp Kev

It is and it works, had similar issues and this sorted it The important thing is to properly clean the needle/nozzle after each session, if left for a a day or two with just a flush clean, it will slowly build up a paint layer inside the nozzle tip. This is the cause of alsorts of issues

Thanks for the pointer on that one, been looking for one myself

Your most welcome.

here's the cheaper version.
https://www.ebay.com.au/p/11pcs-Airbrus ... 3383185463

Scott recommended using paper points from the dental profession to nozzle clean. Less chance to do damage.

[MarkSzeman]

Thanks digger, I have a set of those already, and have various dental tools coming from aliexpress for these purposes too, the paper is a good idea though, i was worried trying to push even the smallest of those brushes or the reaming like wire threads to clean. I need to get an ultrasonic cleaner, then i wouldn't be worried about these types of issues

[digger303]

Thanks digger, I have a set of those already, and have various dental tools coming from aliexpress for these purposes too, the paper is a good idea though, i was worried trying to push even the smallest of those brushes or the reaming like wire threads to clean. I need to get an ultrasonic cleaner, then i wouldn't be worried about these types of issues

I'v got a ultra sonic cleaner and they are good, but since I lack bench space it is put away in a drawer and I never use it. More me it's quicker just to clean the brush more often.

[jmurphy18]

Have you checked/cleaned the inside of the nozzle? Spitting can often be to the needle not sealing/sitting correctly in the nozzle. This can be caused by a small amount of paint built up in sided the nozzle, H & S do a tool to clean the inside of the nozzle look Here seventh one down

Kev, the 1st time the AB spit the needle and nozzle were brand new. I had just taken them out of the tube and replaced the .2mm after doing a full clean. BTY I am a bit anal retentive on cleaning as my Grex is a side loader and tends to hoard paint or what ever in side creates so a flushing does not get it out. You have to pull the down and plugs out. A bit of a PIA so it made me a clean addict as I ruined a test job not cleaning right.

Thanks on that tool. I do not have that one. Just the set of 7 brushes. I do clean the nozzle every time as you get a buildup in the nozzle. I will invest in one of these reamers or Scotts system. I will have to look at both and see what I can get here.

Digger: I saw your alternative on Master AIrbrush site here on Amazon as part of a kit.

I will work on this during the week. Have to wait now till payday . Wife cut me off last night LOL.

Mark LOL on the Predator took kit idea

Scott: Bummer on the ruined paint. I need the water trap also... Damn

Thanks guys so much!

[Kevthemodeller]

Kev, the 1st time the AB spit the needle and nozzle were brand new. I had just taken them out of the tube and replaced the .2mm after doing a full clean. BTY I am a bit anal retentive on cleaning as my Grex is a side loader and tends to hoard paint or what ever in side creates so a flushing does not get it out. You have to pull the down and plugs out. A bit of a PIA so it made me a clean addict as I ruined a test job not cleaning right.

Okay, when was the last time you adjusted/changed the needle seal or updated it to the improved 3 seal type, and/or cleaned/adjust the air valve? Just trying think of the less obvious possibilities and the ones that often get overlooked, having been there and done that so to speak

[jmurphy18]

I would go with a dental proximal cleaner and dental paper points...but then that is me
I showed those in my cleaning your airbrush videos I did

I have not seen your video Scott. It I did a search on these cleaners. I remember seeing these dental cleaners on Spray Gunners. What I have is a set of seven brushes from H&S. The two smallest ones White rod cleans the .2mm and the green cleans the .4mm. Just like those brushes. I do use them every time I clean my airbrush.

Thanks on the water trap. Ordered off Amazon $6. Be here tomorrow. That was horrid on your P2K spray!

@Kevthemodeller my airbrush is 2 weeks old. I got it the 1st week in April so it has the new seals. Thanks though
Today .2mm 50:50 Tamiya Acrilic w/Lq thinner and no issues. Sprayed wonderful...

HAGD folks off to pizza with some buds

[Twokidsnosleep]

I would go with a dental proximal cleaner and dental paper points...but then that is me
I showed those in my cleaning your airbrush videos I did

I have not seen your video Scott. It I did a search on these cleaners. I remember seeing these dental cleaners on Spray Gunners. What I have is a set of seven brushes from H&S. The two smallest ones White rod cleans the .2mm and the green cleans the .4mm. Just like those brushes. I do use them every time I clean my airbrush.

Thanks on the water trap. Ordered off Amazon $6. Be here tomorrow. That was horrid on your P2K spray!

@Kevthemodeller my airbrush is 2 weeks old. I got it the 1st week in April so it has the new seals. Thanks though
Today .2mm 50:50 Tamiya Acrilic w/Lq thinner and no issues. Sprayed wonderful...

HAGD folks off to pizza with some buds

I might swear a bit in this...oops

[digger303]

Digger:
I will work on this during the week. Have to wait now till payday . Wife cut me off last night LOL
Thanks guys so much!

Don't worry you can always model until she comes round.......

[jmurphy18]

Update: well folks I had another run at the .4mm needle/nozzle setup in my H&S ultra. I tried Mr Hobbie Finishing 1500 sander primer cut with Mr Color 1:1. I tried 20 psi, 25, & 30. It spits and collects around the air cap.
BTW. No matter what the pressure all the way to 60, the best I get under spray load is 30 psi with .4mm
Using the Grex with the .3mm needle the pressure is higher and that airbrush likes 20 psi. I sprayed my interior parts with this mixture using the grex.

I tried mixing Tamiya Laquor primer with Tamiya Laquor thinner 1:1. Same problem. I even tried Tamia Acrylic paint cut with Ultimate thinner 1:1. Ugh. I did notice when I was spraying with the Grex I had way more pressure exiting the nozzle at 25 with a .3mm needle than the H&S had with the .4mm at 30. I am suspecting the compressor

Compressor is the Grex .7CFM or 20L/min

[Twokidsnosleep]

Dude I have no idea
Must be the compressor flow then...not able to keep a steady enough air stream for the demand
?????

[Hawkmoon]

Has your compressor got a storage tank or is it a straight through to airbrush set up.

The reason I ask is with a storage tank you get a smooth constant flow of air to the air brush but with some straight to brush set ups you can get pulsing from the air pump that can cause spitting and bad paint flow.

[Twokidsnosleep]

No storage tanks on the Grex units he and I have, so that is the thinking of non confluent flow

[Modelfreek]

Update: well folks I had another run at the .4mm needle/nozzle setup in my H&S ultra. I tried Mr Hobbie Finishing 1500 sander primer cut with Mr Color 1:1. I tried 20 psi, 25, & 30. It spits and collects around the air cap.
BTW. No matter what the pressure all the way to 60, the best I get under spray load is 30 psi with .4mm
Using the Grex with the .3mm needle the pressure is higher and that airbrush likes 20 psi. I sprayed my interior parts with this mixture using the grex.

I tried mixing Tamiya Laquor primer with Tamiya Laquor thinner 1:1. Same problem. I even tried Tamia Acrylic paint cut with Ultimate thinner 1:1. Ugh. I did notice when I was spraying with the Grex I had way more pressure exiting the nozzle at 25 with a .3mm needle than the H&S had with the .4mm at 30. I am suspecting the compressor

Compressor is the Grex .7CFM or 20L/min

I feel your pain mate. I have a H&S infinity plus that plays up like a bag of scalded cats if a very
Narrow and specific set up is not followed exactly! I found with a .2 nozzle/needle set up that close
To a 1:1 thinning will work ok at around 20 to 30 psi with the trigger wound up to about half pull.
The .4 nozzle/needle set up is even more sensitive pre thinned lacquer paints between
15 to 20 psi with a little more than half pull restriction to really control how much paint you get.
With paints you have to mix most will be ok 1:1 between 25 to 30 psi.

2 things I found to make H&S brushes liveable: trigger set up, matched to pressure ( took me
A few days playing to make a chart for diff brands of paint)

And moisture in the line. That’s a big one! Any moisture at all and it all goes to poop.
You get around 10 to 15 min of spraying time before the brush will start to play up and
A complete dismantling strip and clean is required between colours changes as well.

I’ve used an apex airbrush and a Mig Ammo aircobra brush and I have to say for larger
Coverage work they out perform H&S hands down for 1/4 of the price. I only use my
Infinity plus now for lacquer fine detail work. My go to is still my Iwata hp-c.

[jmurphy18]

Hawkmoon, Thanks for the reply! As Scott said no tank http://grexusa.com/grexairbrush/product ... d=AC1810-A. I am sure I am getting some pulsations. I see Modelfreak also has some input on the subject. Thanks for the input and info!

[Twokidsnosleep]

My next airbrush compressor will have a secondary storage tank

[jmurphy18]

Modelfreak. Thank you so much! You just saved me so much time and frustration with this post. That .4 mm just does not like me but the .2mm & I get along just fine with the paint.

[Hawkmoon]

I started off with a basic starter set off fleabay -tankless compressor with two airbrushes gravity and bottom feed both worked well and set me up well and I also improved there performance just by polishing the needles [trust me this can improve a basic ccc [cheap chinese copy] from average to good]. After about 12 months I upgraded to a tank compressor and bought an Iwata Neo .

The new tank compressor and Neo was a suprise and a learning curve again, suprising how it was so much easyer to set up with a garanteed constant preasure but also a little more on the set up to get it right for what was needed for the model on the spray bench [ we are talking about tweeks here nothing major].

The Neo branded airbrush is a basic Iwata airbrush made in China under contract but because it sat well in my hand and its performance was great. As long as you cleaned it properly it perfomed as it should every time I then decided to go for an upgrade to the HP-C Plus, and wow did just what I wanted . Dont get me wrong you still need to get your paint thinned correctly and also setting the preasure correctly for the paint your using but apart from that sweet to use.

I currently use two HP-C's one for acrylic and one for oil based paints with a Maxjett compresor tower, I also have an Iwata Micron Plus side potter for fine work but this needs careful set up to perform well. The paint needs to be prepared well, mix with a mechanical mixer and then strained to remove any blobs [ trust me if you dont prepare your paint you will have a nightmare when you try to spray your latest best kit it will end up looking like the mother in law on a bad day]. Basicly the more expensive the airbush the set up needs more care.

Experience and constant use of your chosen airbrush will pay you dividends and is the only way to learn how to use it I like Iwata and im sure ther are others who cant get on with my preference and will swear by theres but the message is still the same practice and more practice is the only way to improve and also remember one brand of paint can need one setting and another will need tweeking to get the same results.

[Twokidsnosleep]

I started off with a basic starter set off fleabay -tankless compressor with two airbrushes gravity and bottom feed both worked well and set me up well and I also improved there performance just by polishing the needles [trust me this can improve a basic ccc [cheap chinese copy] from average to good]. After about 12 months I upgraded to a tank compressor and bought an Iwata Neo .

The new tank compressor and Neo was a suprise and a learning curve again, suprising how it was so much easyer to set up with a garanteed constant preasure but also a little more on the set up to get it right for what was needed for the model on the spray bench [ we are talking about tweeks here nothing major].

The Neo branded airbrush is a basic Iwata airbrush made in China under contract but because it sat well in my hand and its performance was great. As long as you cleaned it properly it perfomed as it should every time I then decided to go for an upgrade to the HP-C Plus, and wow did just what I wanted . Dont get me wrong you still need to get your paint thinned correctly and also setting the preasure correctly for the paint your using but apart from that sweet to use.

I currently use two HP-C's one for acrylic and one for oil based paints with a Maxjett compresor tower, I also have an Iwata Micron Plus side potter for fine work but this needs careful set up to perform well. The paint needs to be prepared well, mix with a mechanical mixer and then strained to remove any blobs [ trust me if you dont prepare your paint you will have a nightmare when you try to spray your latest best kit it will end up looking like the mother in law on a bad day]. Basicly the more expensive the airbush the set up needs more care.

Experience and constant use of your chosen airbrush will pay you dividends and is the only way to learn how to use it I like Iwata and im sure ther are others who cant get on with my preference and will swear by theres but the message is still the same practice and more practice is the only way to improve and also remember one brand of paint can need one setting and another will need tweeking to get the same results.

What an awesome post
Great info stuff here...trial by fire and learning how to make do and then how to upgrade.
We all find equipment/brands we like and tend to stick to it, even if it isn’t performing well sometimes.
Totally agree on the needle polish...do that all the time now
Paint straining I will have to get into...got some fine filters the other month
Love the idea of different airbrushes for lacquers vs acrylics

Murph is having some issues, but is really teaching us about more airbrushing nuances and helping me plan out what I will need and buy in the future
So thanks for starting this out Murphy bud, been a big help to me

[Kevthemodeller]

Update: well folks I had another run at the .4mm needle/nozzle setup in my H&S ultra. I tried Mr Hobbie Finishing 1500 sander primer cut with Mr Color 1:1. I tried 20 psi, 25, & 30. It spits and collects around the air cap.
BTW. No matter what the pressure all the way to 60, the best I get under spray load is 30 psi with .4mm
Using the Grex with the .3mm needle the pressure is higher and that airbrush likes 20 psi. I sprayed my interior parts with this mixture using the grex.

I tried mixing Tamiya Laquor primer with Tamiya Laquor thinner 1:1. Same problem. I even tried Tamia Acrylic paint cut with Ultimate thinner 1:1. Ugh. I did notice when I was spraying with the Grex I had way more pressure exiting the nozzle at 25 with a .3mm needle than the H&S had with the .4mm at 30. I am suspecting the compressor

Compressor is the Grex .7CFM or 20L/min

Something clearly isn't right here

I've got 2 H & S brushes, Evolution and Infinity both CRplus. Every problem I've had as either been the paint/thinner or how I've reassembled the brush after cleaning, these brushes are in my opinion the best out there.

I would suggest you're missing something, can't see the wood for the trees, I've done that many times and not just with the airbrush! Mr Hobby Color or Tamiya are I would suggest the most stable and easiest paints to use, providing you mix/thin correctly. With either of them I mix 50/50 as a start and they just spray, little or no tip dry certainly no spitting. I found to spray Mr Hobby Surfacer 1000 you need 0.4 needle which is the set you're having issues with.

If I've ever had spitting it's been my fault due to one or more of the following: -

Bent needle
Partially blocked nozzle
Nozzle incorrectly fitted
Nozzle seal damaged
Needle not pushed home correctly
Wrong nozzle/needle
Air valve sticking
Air valve not set correctly

I would strip the brush and check everything again, better still if you can get some else to check it. If possible take it to your local (if you've got one) model shop get them to check it.

Check the following: -

1. Needle is straight, roll on a flat surface glass is perfect.
2. The nozzle isn't damaged
3. The needle/nozzle are the correct size e.g. 0.2 each, sounds daft but I've mixed mine in the past when I only had one brush and was changing sizes to spray primer 0.4. That had my pulling my hair out for a day or so
4. The nozzle is clean and clear. I've had a cleaning brush hair stuck in mine and a tiny amount of paint, both will stop the needle seating correctly and give you spitting. The paint issue I only solved when I used the H&S nozzle cleaning tool, I'd used cotton buds, flossing brushes, even the needle none shifted the paint. I couldn't see the paint even through a X5 magnifier but it was there
5. Check the air valve is set correctly and free. I know you brush is new but it's possible it wasn't set correctly or you've moved it when attaching the air hose, cleaning etc.
6. The nozzle seal mating surface is clean and the seal isn't damaged, both will give you spitting, but you should also get bubbles in the colour cup. But these can be tiny and if you're not looking for them you wont notice, this seal vital to the airbrush operation.
7. The needle is seated correctly in the nozzle and the needle chuck lock nut secure, this is also effected be point 4 above.

As Mark mentioned the trigger setting and operation are a key element to using a H&S airbrush and I found different form any other I've used. Time and practice are key, that said basic spraying should be possible out of the box.

If none of the above is present and you still can't spray Tamiya and X20a or Mr Color and Levelling thinner 50/50 then the brush is the issue. Regardless of all the different possible mixes of paint/thinner type etc, etc the brush should work fine with Tamiya/Mr Color paint, thinner 50/50, mine does.

If it isn't and you're sure it's all set/assembled correctly, send it back you're chasing the error and something is wrong with the brush . Perhaps it been subject to a heavy drop during the time it left the factory or something, or your's is the .1 % or whatever go wrong and have got through quality control.

Bottom line a new H&S airbrush should work like a dream with these paints

[jmurphy18]

Wow! Thanks guys for all this great information I need to work through and answer! After 4 days in a row of rain here and my yard fertilized 2 days before that you can imagine what my yard was like, Hint guns and roses and welcome to the jungle lol. I spent the day in the yard and prepped my weed eater and blower. Yard looks great now but tired so no model work today I may get some tome later tomorrow afternoon. I did get a fitting so I could use the 1/8 “ AB hose with my big compressor so I could rule out any issues with the baby Grex. With twin tanks and 120 psi I have more than enough pressure to feed the airbrush:). Figured to run the line pressure down to 35-40 psi and throttle the AB with my GMax valve

[jmurphy18]

Firstoff I would like to thank all those who have stepped up to help me with my problem. To name a few, @Twokidsnosleep ,@digger303 , @Modelfreek , @Hawkmoon, @Kevthemodeller. I know there are others I have missed but I just want to say Thank You very much for our help and support!
I had some time today to squeeze in some experiment time on the airbrush and tank.
I did as all the others suggested I checked both needles and nozzles. Both are clean and in good/new conditions. What I did notice is that the .2mm needle sticks further out of the nozzle than the .4mm. The .4mm is on the right .2mm on the left side.


What I wanted to do was eliminate the tank from the equation, so I build an adaptor so I could use my large railgun compressor that has twin tanks. This is what I built.

That rig allowed me to use my main compressor that I dialed back to 50 psi with the .4mm needle.
I did a mix of Tamiya grey primer and Tamiya Laquor Thinner @ 1:1 mix. @ 50 par it flowed and shot great, at 40 paint it shot great and at 35 I got just a bit of spitting in the air cap but this had happen when I bent down to adjust the pressure on the main tank. The spitting @ 35 was in the damaged area on the ring.

The quick release jumped in my hands and the airbrush hit the floor and I got this damage So now I have to replace the air cap Guess I will buy that pinch cap after all

After this I went back to the Grex compressor and I set the unit to wide open. i.e. 60 psi. What I get with the .4mm needle is ~ 36 psi. I loaded the brush and I was able to spray with just a bit collecting on my damaged area. So as Hawkmoon noted there is a pressure range. Looks to be 35-40 psi for the .4mm and ~ 29/30 for the .2mm. At least with my little Grex.
Scott, looks like we need a compressor with a tank and one with a better gauge than my railgun unit. The garbage rig I used to make that work.....8 wraps of Teflon tape. I did not have the proper fitting

[Twokidsnosleep]

Oh shoot, hate to see that damaged, but you made some good decisions to test the issues
Ya I am not surprised the Grex compressor is weak, nor that the gauge is off. Mine spits water out of it like crazy.
Good reason to not shed any tears when it is replacement time

[jmurphy18]

Scott, on the compressor a tank would be good but what we need is one that will hold pressure and not yo-yo like the Grex does under load. My testing showed I ned ~ 40 psi to use that .4mm needle so that would be my goal.
I also have to replace the water trap as I cracked it tightening down the fitting
Check out the NoName large unit at Spraygunners. Unit runs about $150 and is 1/2 the cost of a Sparmax which guess who owns them..... Hint H&S.

Modelfreek: I have been doing well with the .2mm needle. Mine seems to like 28 psi best or 2 bar and sprays well. My Grex compressor hold this pressure fairly consistent with not to much inconsistly (no tank). I can primer, but it does take a while. Paint goes down really smooth and looks great. For me I found with the .4mm needle in I needed 35-40 psi to flow primer. LOL with the 2ml cup it went fast. I am use to the Grex AB. The small cup on the Grex is 7.5ml and the large is 15ml.
I do try to setup the trigger the same way every time. I like your idea of a table just for general purpose as this will help with what ever AB you are suing and I will work on this. Thanks.

Hawkmoon: My 1st AB is a Grex TS side feed. Works well but can be a real pain to clean as back flushing does not get the paint out of the packets and cross Chanels. It just moves more paint than I want to move
I have never tried polishing the needle. I guess that is something I need else I need to look into.
I do believe I will need to look into a new compressor in the future. I guess it is a good thing I am selling two of my DSLR's
Like Scott I like your idea of one AB for each type of paint.

Scott: Trial by fire! LOL, yes that does sound familiar
Equipment and brands: Yup that is me and I am stubborn like that LOL! Hard headed.
I need to looking polishing the needle never new about this aspect.
on starting the thread

Kevthemodler: Thanks for all that great info! I am a bit stubborn and wanted to get the mine an Ultra to work
I did today as my 1st post indicated. I did check the needle for flatness as you indicated. It was identical to the .2mm. Therefor the 2. & the .4 are with flat and not bent. I checked both nozzles and they were clear. The air caps are different. I have the pinch cap on the .2, same as your Infinity whereas the Ultra has the std closed cap you see in my 1st post.
I found that 28-30 psi worked for the .2mm using the Grex and .4mm I had to jump it up to 35 PSI (it's max) to get good flow. So it looks like my main issue is the limit of my compressor.

Thanks for the help!

[Kevthemodeller]

John

I'm stumped, my 2 H&S's spray as low as 2psi, I've never gone above 25 psi as yet, I've sprayed Tamiya, Mr Hobby Color & Aqueous, Zero paints, AK Extreme metal and ture acrylics Ammo Mig, Vallejo model air, colour and Pazner Aces, AK. Other than tip dry and other well know common issues with true acrylics, they've performed flawlessly once I'd sorted the issues I outlined in my previous posts and I've had no issues at all spraying with Tamiya, Mr Hobby, Zero or AK Extreme. All I find spray better below 20psi

I think you're saying you have reached the max of the compressor at 35psi, are you sure the gauge is correct? You shouldn't need pressures above 30 odd psi ever to spray any standard modelling paint.

[jmurphy18]

Hi Kev
I think some of my issue is the compressor & some The .4mm needle. My .2mm sprays wonderful ~ 25-26 psi’s where I set it initially and then adjust the GMax valve. Unit is on the floor & I stand up to spray. As for the gauge I do not know but I would assume on a new regulator it is fairly accurate

I bet you have a tank on yours. Mine is a small tankless. The Grex is a 1/8 hp tankless that flows .7 cfm or 20 l/m. Every time I open the air valve the compressor runs

What you are describing I can do with my Grex airbrush that came with that compressor. It has a .3mm needle but is not as precise as the H&S. I wonder if I have a damaged needle or nozzle from what you are saying. I should have some free time this weekend to try again. I have a couple of plastic plates primed and I can spray them.

[Kevthemodeller]

I bet you have a tank on yours.

My first compressor here didn't and was pretty much just like yours but flowed less but all the time during spraying. I used it with my first airbrush after returning to the hobby a Sparmax MAX-4 and my first ever H&S the Evolution 0.4- 0.2 Crplus, it performed perfectly.

I up graded mainly as it was a little noisy and went for a Sil Air 15A which is fantastic

What you are describing I can do with my Grex airbrush that came with that compressor. It has a .3mm needle but is not as precise as the H&S.

It should make no difference as to the size of the needle as to whether the compressor works, that's one of the things really puzzling me.

I wonder if I have a damaged needle or nozzle from what you are saying. I should have some free time this weekend to try again. I have a couple of plastic plates primed and I can spray them.

My money is on one or both of these being your problem, looking at the third of the first set of pictures you posted. The needle is looking pretty bad for a new one, it's also very likely you've damaged the nozzle.

[jmurphy18]

Good evening/day to you Kev and thanks for the reply! I was able to find some free time today to do a little painting on some plates. I had the .2mm in my Ultra so this is what I worked wth. I mixed some Mr Hobby metal paint & Mr Hobby Thinner (1:1). I did some spraying at various pressures. 20, 25, 28, & 30. I was getting some spitting and this was puzzling me till I realized I was not pressing down on the air valve all the way. Like when I do short quick passes. I have gone from a car style airbrush where you get air 1st then paint to pushing down to get air then pull back to get paint. I think I must have some finger calibration issues. I worked at it and did a lot of spraying today on the plates. I got the pressure working well at 20 psi and the compressor not fluctuating as much. I am going to sand one of the plates down & reprime tomorrow. For that I will use the .4mm needle and see what happens. Not 100% sure as the aircup is still damaged
Thank you for all your great advice and the link

[jmurphy18]

Good day to you folks! I did some priming yesterday. There was this piece of cardboard that really wanted to be primed LOL. I installed the .4mm needle and thinned some Tamiya 1:1. No issues at 29 psi/2 bar. Reduced to 25 psi again no issues, just a little buildup on the air cup. Most notably around the damaged area. I have ordered the pinch cap for the .4mm so this should fix this. I primed a plastic plate and my small bits for the Porsche and no issues.

I cleaned up and loaded some Grex black paint (water based). it is suppose to be airbrush ready but I thinned it 2/3 and I shot another piece of cardboard. No issues at 28, 25, 20 and I even turned down the GMax valve.

So results is "I" have to pay more attention to the air valve on the H&S vs the Get which is always on. Second like Scott, Digger and Kev said I need to thin my paint and thinner more. No more 2/3 or thicker. Need to go 1:1 and do more coats. Especially with the .4mm needle. I made one other observation the Grex really like working better at 25 PSI vs the 29-30 range. Not as much water buildup in the trap. Heat buildup from working harder. (My major is ThermoDamnnamics) and yes I spelt it that way for a reason LOL!
Thanks folks and have a great day and week

[Kevthemodeller]

Glad you got it working John

You should be able to spray any paint (properly thinned at anywhere between 10 - 35 psi