Airfix 1/24 Bf 109 E

Post by **Johnj** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:18 am

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I've no idea how long i've had this kit, i dont even remember buying it, it was that long ago.
This will be the last aircraft kit i build i think. Between this and the phantom i've realised i just dont have the same interest as i do with the cars and bikes. I spent a good bit of today trying to find AM seatbelts but i came up blank. I wouldnt mind some detail parts for the cockpit either so if anybody can point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated.

Post by **shortCummins** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:00 am

here's a list of aftermarket parts that Hannants do...

https://www.hannants.co.uk/search/index ... ve_search=

Post by **Johnj** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:33 pm

shortCummins wrote:here's a list of aftermarket parts that Hannants do...

https://www.hannants.co.uk/search/index ... ve_search=

Thank you

the amount of times i was on that page and only saw the cataloge for sale. Every day really is a school day !

Post by **Johnj** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:41 pm

Sorted ! Another £50 into the never-ending black hole though.

Post by **gazmat** » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:20 pm

Whatever you do...if you are going to close the engine in, make sure that the front nose part fits on top....I have had an absolute nightmare trying get that closed up over the engine. This has been one of the most time consuming models I have ever made...Its driving me mad with some of the parts fitting, its almost been binned twice..

Post by **Johnj** » Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:57 pm

gazmat wrote:Whatever you do...if you are going to close the engine in, make sure that the front nose part fits on top....I have had an absolute nightmare trying get that closed up over the engine. This has been one of the most time consuming models I have ever made...Its driving me mad with some of the parts fitting, its almost been binned twice..

This is exactly where i'm at the moment.

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I've never not finished a kit ever, but this could be the first ! The PE sets arrived yesterday, i've kept the seatbelts because they were only £6 but the other two sets went back today. I'm not wasting nearly £50 on this terrible kit.

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i'm squeezing quite hard here as you can see by the colour of my finger tips and there is about 2mm to be found from somewhere to get it to close up. Now, i have no doubt that it is possible but do i want to spend hours 'stealing' fractions from many different points. I think most of it would need to come off the engine as you would be getting very close to bursting through if you tried to get it from the cowl alone.

Post by **gazmat** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:13 pm

Thats the one.....I have added Evergreen plastic all around that area...Have to agree with you, its a terrible kit.
After about 2 weeks of the front fuselage giving me grief, its starting to come together...but I found last night the front part of "glass" cockpit does not marry up with the main fuselage, so again more Evergreen required....as your at this stage John....BIN IT!!!! and move on...

Post by **Johnj** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:41 pm

gazmat wrote:Thats the one.....I have added Evergreen plastic all around that area...Have to agree with you, its a terrible kit.
After about 2 weeks of the front fuselage giving me grief, its starting to come together...but I found last night the front part of "glass" cockpit does not marry up with the main fuselage, so again more Evergreen required....as your at this stage John....BIN IT!!!! and move on...

Ah, bummer. Wish i had checked back here before doing anymore to it, i could have saved myself more hassle.
I'm not sure what to do now, a big chunk of me just wants to bin it and move on as you say, but i have put another pile of time on it since the last pictures i posted including the front glass part you mention. I'll post pics of where i've got to now.

Post by **Johnj** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:51 pm

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Post by **Stokesy44** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:52 pm

Its a shame you're not getting any enjoyment from working on the kit. It is a product of its time, unfortunately, and more specifically, of Airfix at the time. The old 'Super Kits' just don't stand up to their modern counterparts.

I don't recall the 109 being any better or worse than say the Spitfire and the Hurricane in the same series. Maybe the moulds have deteriorated or the plastic being used is of less quality. I remember enjoying making them which makes it all the more sad that its proving to be such a sow's ear for you.

Trumpeter's 1/24 offerings were much better but they cost more money. You get what you pay for I suppose.

Regardless of how much time you've spent, if it were me, I would draw a line in the sand and ask myself, am I going to enjoy this going forward? If its no I would stop and get onto something else, just to get your mojo back and get rid of the bad taste in your mouth.

I feel for you mate.

Post by **Johnj** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:48 pm

Stokesy44 wrote:Its a shame you're not getting any enjoyment from working on the kit. It is a product of its time, unfortunately, and more specifically, of Airfix at the time. The old 'Super Kits' just don't stand up to their modern counterparts.

I don't recall the 109 being any better or worse than say the Spitfire and the Hurricane in the same series. Maybe the moulds have deteriorated or the plastic being used is of less quality. I remember enjoying making them which makes it all the more sad that its proving to be such a sow's ear for you.

Trumpeter's 1/24 offerings were much better but they cost more money. You get what you pay for I suppose.

Regardless of how much time you've spent, if it were me, I would draw a line in the sand and ask myself, am I going to enjoy this going forward? If its no I would stop and get onto something else, just to get your mojo back and get rid of the bad taste in your mouth.

I feel for you mate.

I think this is the problem. Once i started earning, i've only built tamiya kits so i have been spoiled with the quality. It's usually only cars and bikes i build but i thought i would build the 109 to get a bit more experience with weathering and stuff that you just dont get with the cars and bikes.
I'm probably expecting too much with it and as you quite rightly say, it is what it is ! I did build them all as a kid but it would have been tube glue and brushed enamel paint and just didnt know any better at the time.

I'm going to keep going with it and just accept it for what it is. Thank you for making those valid points, i feel a bit happier going forward with it

Post by **gazmat** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:38 pm

Thats weird, my fitting of the cockpit is at the front Im having problems with, my back part that you show in your picture has issues, where as mine doesn't...but yours I have to say, is looking like a better fit.....I will post some pictures shortly of my effort.
Maybe stay with it, and use it a learning curve and gain experience...thats my philosophy on it.

Post by **Johnj** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:51 pm

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Post by **gazmat** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:31 pm

Yes same problem John, one side is a better fit than the other, yours has closed up better than mine to be honest, I had to chop some of the engine down to get that nose part fit....I have lost all the rivet detail, where I had to fill with Evergreen and Mr Hobby filler. Yours has definitely gone together better than mine....well done.

STASH · Post by **Cymru** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:37 pm

According to the "rivet counters" on the net, Airfix never intended for the engine to be in place with the cowls closed. It is believed that you omit the engine with cowls closed or fit the engine and have the cowls omitted, but they just never bothered to tell you that

Post by **Johnj** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:39 pm

Can you post some pics ? I'm chopping the engine as we speak. That 'Y' shaped thing at the top has gone as well as the front corner of the cylinder heads.

Post by **Johnj** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:48 pm

Cymru wrote:According to the "rivet counters" on the net, Airfix never intended for the engine to be in place with the cowls closed. It is believed that you omit the engine with cowls closed or fit the engine and have the cowls omitted, but they just never bothered to tell you that

Surley if that was true they would have given alternative parts to hold the prop and spinner in place when the engine is not installed ?

Post by **Johnj** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:53 pm

gazmat wrote:Yes same problem John, one side is a better fit than the other, yours has closed up better than mine to be honest, I had to chop some of the engine down to get that nose part fit....I have lost all the rivet detail, where I had to fill with Evergreen and Mr Hobby filler. Yours has definitely gone together better than mine....well done.

The engine is not in place in the photo's. I think i'm only going to keep enough of the engine to hold the prop in place.

Post by **gazmat** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:41 pm

lol, done the same John, cut those Y shaped things off completely...Still not perfect after doing that, but lowered the cowl a bit, seems too tight on the width as well...Nope Cymru, sure it didn't mention that in the instructions, If it did, I must of missed them, if it did though, then that would explain a lot

....I have the cowl fitted now John, so not a great deal to see. I would leave the engine out if not your going to show it.

You can hold the prop in place by using the rounded disc that closes up the prop to engine part, just glue that on and fix the prop to that.

Post by **Johnj** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:53 pm

Yeah, the reason i didnt want to glue the prop/spinner straight on was i would loose the gap, but your right, thats the least of my worries on the grand scale of things !
I'm painting the cockpit as we speak, i'll post some pics when there is something to show

Post by **Johnj** » Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:18 am

I feel like i'm getting somewhere at last ! I've spent the last week tutting and shaking my head.
This is the bit i'm just not good at - trying to figure out what color to paint each part of the cockpit. The picture i found online that appealed to me the most really only had one colour but there was some subtle shading/weathering that really brought it to life !

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I did try some drybrushing on the seat which looks ok.

Post by **Johnj** » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:51 pm

gazmat wrote:lol, done the same John, cut those Y shaped things off completely...Still not perfect after doing that, but lowered the cowl a bit, seems too tight on the width as well...Nope Cymru, sure it didn't mention that in the instructions, If it did, I must of missed them, if it did though, then that would explain a lot ....I have the cowl fitted now John, so not a great deal to see. I would leave the engine out if not your going to show it.

You can hold the prop in place by using the rounded disc that closes up the prop to engine part, just glue that on and fix the prop to that.

I think we may have been a bit quick to chop that 'Y' part at the top of the engine. After looking at it again in daylight i could see that the plastic inside the cowl where the guns exit was too thick, so after thinning that as far as i dared the cowl was almost closed completely. To find that last little bit i cut off the air intake for the supercharger, shaved 1.5mm from the bottom of it and re-glued it. Now the engine fits with room to spare with the cowls on.......at last !

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Post by **Johnj** » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:54 pm

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Post by **Johnj** » Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:01 pm

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Post by **gazmat** » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:28 pm

The cockpit is looking great John...nice to see you have the nose fitting as well. Have taken pictures of mine, will get them up later.

Post by **Johnj** » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:39 pm

gazmat wrote:The cockpit is looking great John...nice to see you have the nose fitting as well. Have taken pictures of mine, will get them up later.

Exellent ! Apart from the engine and cowlings, does the rest of the kit go together ok ?

i repainted the engine again earlier, i'll upload some pics in a bit.
after saying no more aircraft i've ordered the 1/32 tamiya mossie this morning. That takes me back up to four aircraft kits again !

Post by **Johnj** » Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:45 pm

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Post by **gazmat** » Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:54 pm

John, as you can see, this is how far I have got....the Machine guns and Cockpit dash, are the only after market parts I have bought, but looking at your seatbelts, I may invest (maybe to late to fit now though)...Loads of filling to do, 2nd time for the fuselage, that I don't mind, managed to sort the cockpit glass out today as well, added a bit to it. I think now, it will be plain sailing, the rest of the main parts, seem to fit ok....I will have to reinstate the Rivets soon as well, as after the sanding you loose a few, oh yes re-scribing some of the panels as well, mainly at the front end.
Also read on the net, some people have given up on it, I have to say, I know where there coming from...

I have to say also, that my heart is not in this anymore..that will do attitude.

Post by **Johnj** » Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:52 pm

Looking good, really good ! You're quite a bit further on than me. I struggled to find AM parts for it. I like the brass barrels, very nice. It would be easier if you can get the seat back out the cockpit but you could still add the seatbelts as it is just now.
I know what you mean, i get why some would just abandon it, there is so much better on the market now.
I have no doubt that they will both look good when finished but i think we'll be glad when they're at that stage

Post by **Johnj** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:13 pm

I can finally get the fusalage halfs closed up now. I spent a fair bit of time trimming the top part of the instrument panel to fit inside the clear front part. It probably had to be lifted 2mm or so !

Post by **Johnj** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:16 pm

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Post by **Johnj** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:18 pm

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Post by **Johnj** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:20 pm

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Post by **Stokesy44** » Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:50 pm

Looking good. Great to see the fit issues being overcome. Really like the seat harness too.

Post by **Johnj** » Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:04 pm

Yeah, thanks

i'm supprised how well the seatbelts look as it's only painted PE ! I think i'm around 30hrs to get the engine and cowls to fit as well as they do now but hopefully it will move on quite quickly now. I'm gonna try and paint and weather this properly so i will need some help pointing me in the right direction.

Post by **Johnj** » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:36 pm

Another bit done. I know it doesnt seem much but getting to the point of being able to close the fusalage halfs and get it sitting on it's wheels feels like a big step forward.

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Post by **Johnj** » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:37 pm

Just thought this looked a bit funny

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Post by **Stokesy44** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:07 am

Looking good. Gives me goose bumps as I remember making this 30 odd years ago. There's something about an aircraft kit when the fuselage comes together and the rudder goes on, almost like it was on the factory floor. To me its a thing of wander and its never left me, regardless of how old and cynical I get.

Given the TLC you are giving this thing I can't wait for more progress. Bravo!

Post by **Johnj** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:46 am

Thank you. I kow what you mean with the nostalga. I can remember going into 'woolies' and seeing all the 1/24 kits piled high, i built the spit, hurricane and harrier but they would have been birthday or xmas presents. I managed to pick up a harrier from that time on ebay a few years ago but thats the only other airfix kit i have.

i genuinely believe airfix would sell more kits if they went back to the original box art !

Post by **gazmat** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:03 pm

Looking good John,, think mine will be ready for primer this week, re- riveted and scribed a few things over the weekend...just can't wait to get it finished with, had enough now..lol

Post by **Johnj** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:44 pm

gazmat wrote:Looking good John,, think mine will be ready for primer this week, re- riveted and scribed a few things over the weekend...just can't wait to get it finished with, had enough now..lol

Lol, i know how you feel, i need to get it done now so i can start on the tamiya GB. I just dont have space for two on the go.
Hopefully by the end of this evening i wont be far away from priming myself. Please feel free to post as many pictures as you like, i could do with a bit of motivation to get it done !

Post by **Johnj** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:26 pm

Spent most of the week filling and sanding and finally had enough. It's far from perfect, it could do with another few days but i've drawn a line and it's finally getting some colour (even if it is just white primer

I'm just about to try the Ultimate primer and only having ever used tamiya primer is there anything i need to be aware of/look out for ?

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Post by **Johnj** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:27 pm

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Post by **1975GinjaNinja** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:52 pm

Looks good especially after knowing about all those fit issues, very well done.

Post by **Johnj** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:10 pm

Thanks nigel, the worst of the fit is behind that shadow on the wing root lol

Post by **Johnj** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:20 pm

Impressed with the primer and airbrush, not so much with the airbrush cleaner i think i'll be going back to the tamiya stuff.

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Next i suppose is the pre-shading but i'm not sure at all what i'm doing. Do i just shade the panel lines or do i do the rows of rivits as well ? HELP !!!!!!!

Post by **Stokesy44** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:07 pm

Looking seriously good mate.

As for the pre-shade, if it was me I wouldn't do the rivet lines. They'll come out nicely if you do a wash or use pigments later on.

Again - that is really looking like an Emil now - top drawer.

Post by **Johnj** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:26 pm

Stokesy44 wrote:Looking seriously good mate.

if it was me I wouldn't do the rivet lines.

ah !!! Oops

Thank you for the positive comments, i really appreciate it

watching nigel's build is helping a lot too

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Post by **1975GinjaNinja** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:44 pm

They are some seriously nice panel lines. Very good airbrush control. What brush do you use?

Post by **Johnj** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:42 pm

Nigel1975 wrote:They are some seriously nice panel lines. Very good airbrush control. What brush do you use?

You can do the molded fuel caps with this without it looking like a black splodge !
What i like about this one is the colour cup comes off which makes cleaning so much quicker

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I meant to ask - are the top colours two shades of green because on the colour pictures on the instruction book they look like green and earth like a MK1 spit ?
The tamiya colours i planned to use are - bottom and sides - XF-23 light blue. Top - XF-27 black green. Other top - XF-66 German grey ? The yellow will be XF-3 with a touch of orange or light brown just to darken it a bit.