Weathering advice

[SkEeZicks]

I've recently started back into the hobby after a 25 year absence. I've enjoyed learning from this forum and watching tons of how-to videos on youtube. I'm a couple of models in and am quite happy with the progress on my building and painting techniques. The part of the build that is giving me fits is the weathering. It seems I spend hours finishing the model and then ruin it in 15 minutes with the weathering. I've watched the videos and it seems so easy. Here is what I have experienced, any advice on what I have missed would be greatly appreciated. I should add, all aircraft models, all airbrushed with Vallejo or Tamiya acrylic paints and sprayed with future before weathering. Vallejo weathering wash: applied without thinning with a wide brush over the whole model and allowed to dry for 15-20 minutes. Very difficult to remove resulting in a unnatural over-weathered look with some areas that look stained. Pastel wash: Not too bad but still leaves areas behind that can't be completely removed resulting in a "stained" look. Oil wash: Using Windsor and Newton Oil paints thinned with Mineral Spirits, applied to the whole model with a wide brush. Allowed to sit for 20 minutes, didn't feel completely dry but I removed the excess with mineral spirits dampened paper towel and q-tips. This was easier to remove but actually came out of the panel lines a bit as well. It also dissolve the glue (Tamiya thin glue with the green lid)in some places, and I had parts fall off, wasn't expecting that. Anyway, obviously I need lots more practice to achieve a subtle weathered look. Thanks to all who reply, any advice is appreciated, and sorry for the long first post.

[Gb64c]

How I learned, which over 20 years ago, there were not so many options as store bought washes, we made our own with oils and min spirits.

I typically do two good coats of future, one before decal, and one after. Let it set for maybe a week. That is course I paint on the weekends, don't need a full week but several days to harden.

In the past I have had turpentine eat the future and paint off.

After the second coat of future (a week), I lightly apply a very diluted black oil/mine real spirt wash into panel lines and bolt heads etc... Any thing you want to pop.

I use the brush, dabbed dry, to soak up excess, or a cotton bud, immediately, I do not wait 20 mins.

Once all the lines are full I do rust streaking or grime streaks with oil, a small thin swipe down, staggered on the surfaces, long short, short et... Brush of with down strokes, Tupentine wetted brush, go around the kit swiping down till you have the effect you want. Don't soak the kit, the turp or min sprites are hard on future.

After streaks I chip with an oil mix, hull red, a little silver or grey.

Then fill the seams and bolts again.

Then use pigments on tracks and a few places as grime, dust and goo near fuel or grease areas, then I dry brush with a basic base color, desert yellow, green etc mixed with white to make the bolts etc pop.

I learned the rust streaking from Mig on YT

Done

[Radzy]

Hey buddy,

The Vallejo wash is acrylic based. Letting it dry for more than few minutes ( I believe 5 is already too long) causes that it is hardly possible to remove it with any solvent ( I learned it hard way ). So you need to be very careful with that, but it's great for pin washing or when controlled carefully.

In case of oil washes - standard thinners like mineral spirit or turpentine shouldn't do much damage to model or paint if used on good coat of clear or satin varnish. I don't use klear as it's not available in my country, but I use regular clear varnishes from Vallejo or Gunze. Normally as Gb64c said - one good coat before decals and second after. I let each coat dry for about 1.5 - 2 days.

Continuing oil washes story - classic thinners I mentioned may dry for several days, even more than week. I found however that one of the best ways to thin oils is to use lighter liquid. Yep, standard zippo lighter gasoline . It thins oils perfectly, dries very fast ( surface looks and feels dry after max 10 mins), but gives you chance to correct errors even 2 days after application.

Here you can find vid I made about using lighter fluids as thinners.

[youtube]BfARsUdRmcE[/youtube]

So the only things I can suggest are keep it to the basics:

1) let all coats below dry enough;
2) keep the thinning ratio of wash 10% paint to thinner;
3) if you tend to use oil wash - use acrylic varnish and opposite ( this prevents wash thinner to interfere with previous layers)
4) apply wash on gloss or satin surface ( varnish)
5) patience is the key followed by practice

Hope I helped a little.
Cheers,
Radek

[Lee]

I would never use cellulose based washes on an aircraft, there are lots of people that do mind you with excellent results. I prefer a clay based wash like this http://www.umpretail.com/collections/weathering-washes, yes these are ours, but they are the best out there!

There is also a video on the site to show you how to use them. As long as you let the gloss coat dry for 24 hours before adding the wash everything will be fine and it's 100 times easier than using oil washes

[SkEeZicks]

Thanks guys for the responses. I used a coat of Future before the decals and after but I see a theme developing here and that is maybe i'm not letting it dry long enough. Radek, it seems that is exactly what is happening with the Vallejo, so maybe i'll try a practice area with it again. I'll check out the vid too. Lee, I have taken a look at your product and it does look easy, I've only not ordered it because of the old Canadian dollar doesn't stack up against the British Pound very well, and of course the shipping.....anyway, maybe time to bite the bullet. You need a distributor in Canada . I'll keep practicing though. I might have to buy a few cheap kits before start on the next award winner

[Gb64c]

[quote="Lee"]I would never use cellulose based washes on an aircraft, there are lots of people that do mind you with excellent results. I prefer a clay based wash like this


Lee, what in the heck is a cellulose based wash? Never heard this term, cellulose is what you find a fat girls butt,

But serous, cellulose is wood, do you mezzanine like turpentine, from pine trees?

What is clay based?

Why not use turp on an aircraft?

[SkEeZicks]

Hey Gb64c, we definitely have some different terms here in North America so I spend a fair bit of time googling things to see what they are called here. Can't answer all your questions but what I found was that "Mineral spirits, paint thinner, naptha, Stoddard solvent, white spirits are all basically the same thing" and that Cellulose thinner is just the U.K term for Lacquer thinner. I was actually using mineral spirits to make my wash based on a youtube video I watched. I think I know what clay based is but I'll let Lee explain it.

[SkEeZicks]

Alright Lee, checked out your products and video, stuff looks awesome. I see you have a US distributor but they don't have much stock so I'll order from the Ultimate retail site when I get my post count up and can use the discount (no spamming I promise)

[Twokidsnosleep]

I ordered right from the Ultimate website and had no problem getting shipped to Canada in a reasonable quick manner...faster than from US in some cases
and yes "cellulose based" is what we call turpentine, mineral spirits...all the harsh tree based products
I am still looking for a good "oil wash" to use in race car engines and such so they look realistic, used and a bit grimy; may experiment with some acrylics or oil paints I have.
The thinned flat black Tamiya has been my go to so far

[Lee]

Alright Lee, checked out your products and video, stuff looks awesome. I see you have a US distributor but they don't have much stock so I'll order from the Ultimate retail site when I get my post count up and can use the discount (no spamming I promise)

The post count thing is only to stop peole joining just to get the discount.

The discount is ISM50

[SkEeZicks]

Order placed Lee, thanks. Can't wait to try them out. Off to pick up a couple of models to try them on

[Nige1940]

Have You tried adding an enamel to Your oil based wash ? I use varying ratios of (usually) black Humbrol enamel
it can be used from weathering aircraft cockpits/exteriors, to engines and armour subjects. The enamel will make the oil dry a bit quicker, give a more defined colour and also make it a little firmer . conversely the oil will make the enamel dry slower and softer giving You time to work .
There's no set ratio but vary it to give the colour hue and depth required . use a fine brush of the best quality You can afford and apply it to just one end of the panel line/detail and let the capillary action take it as far as it will go . You will get small blobs but these can be wicked away later. if applied over a glossy coat like Klear I use a brush dampened in white spirit (Mineral spirits in the U.S.) don't soak it though or paper kitchen towel again dampened . When You are happy with Your panel accents ,You can then add marks and blobs where You want the other effects And then stump it in the direction of either rain or airflow on a aircraft the process is best repeated until You have the build up You require. It's very much an on going process so don't be in a rush as mentioned earlier let Your chosen varnish dry thoroughly . Remember washes over flat varnish will be filters some nice effects to be gained there too and can be treated in the same way but use Your paint with a much more diluted ratio for a more subtle subtle appearance.